WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.140 Welcome to hallway transgressions. I'm Chris. I'm Ryan 00:03.460 --> 00:10.760 We are two private school alumni and this podcast serves to examine the worldviews of Christian pastors and teachers through a postmodern lens 00:10.760 --> 00:14.220 Oh wait, was that the wrong one? That was the wrong one. That was the wrong one. Yeah 00:15.040 --> 00:17.040 We layered them on top of you 00:17.280 --> 00:19.660 Yeah, we have like three in one spot, don't we? 00:21.080 --> 00:22.920 Which one? 00:22.920 --> 00:28.000 I like to highlight the right one. You know what I'm keeping it. This is a funny gag. Sure 00:28.000 --> 00:30.600 Ryan what's hey Ryan, what's your bright spot? 00:30.600 --> 00:36.480 Well, this is gonna be a bit of a shameless plug, but I have started writing 00:37.360 --> 00:42.320 It's been something I've like wanted to do. I've done like journaling in the past just for myself 00:42.320 --> 00:47.880 But I've gotten encouragement to make some of my writing and perspective more public 00:47.880 --> 00:51.120 So I've started something I had never heard of called a sub stack 00:51.840 --> 00:53.840 It's this website where basically it 00:53.840 --> 01:00.000 Says it's for like email newsletters and whatnot. And when I think newsletter, I usually think like marketing and whatnot 01:00.000 --> 01:05.000 But it's got a definitely a more of a like blog feel at least to mine 01:05.000 --> 01:07.960 It does and I've seen some other people's it's just a way for 01:08.240 --> 01:15.040 People to write and not really have to battle against an algorithm of getting something to show up on social media since if people subscribe 01:15.040 --> 01:17.040 It just goes straight to their email 01:17.040 --> 01:21.000 So if you are interested in reading any of my stuff 01:21.000 --> 01:27.760 It's at deconstruct and reconstruct dot sub stack dot com and there I've just gotten started 01:27.760 --> 01:35.080 I have like I think four on there and I'm starting a schedule of of getting one posted every Tuesday and Friday 01:35.080 --> 01:42.080 So if you're interested in getting my perspective or just like getting yeah, it's basically just perspective how I think I'm not really saying 01:42.080 --> 01:43.760 It's the right way to think or anything like that 01:43.760 --> 01:48.920 But I thought it would just be interesting to talk about things that come into my mind and hear other people's opinions 01:48.920 --> 01:53.080 And ideas on those on those same topics. How about you Chris? Yeah. Yeah, I 01:53.080 --> 02:00.080 I really appreciate your well just your four issues now, but I think you do a really good job of blending in 02:01.080 --> 02:06.640 Antidotes from your life like in school and like around school like not just Lakewood 02:06.640 --> 02:12.320 But more so your college years and blending it in with topics that are interesting and you know 02:12.320 --> 02:15.520 Thoughts that you think about outside of that and so I've been really enjoying it 02:15.520 --> 02:23.760 Yeah, I kind of try to stay away from high school a lot of my journey started in in college in these different thought processes 02:23.760 --> 02:29.520 And so I kind of am wanting to gear it more around that kind of more of a philosophical rather than 02:30.240 --> 02:36.880 Religious types of talks like I will definitely include stuff about religion because I mean that is my background 02:36.880 --> 02:40.200 That's where this all started where my journey started and all of this stuff 02:40.200 --> 02:41.480 So that's definitely there 02:41.480 --> 02:47.480 But I do kind of want more of a tone of just thinking about life and perspectives on 02:47.600 --> 02:52.960 What life is and how we can look at it and how we can look at other people in our existence and our experiences 02:52.960 --> 02:58.120 So yeah, I try to stick with where those thoughts kind of started for me 02:58.120 --> 03:02.960 Yeah, yeah, and it's definitely worth checking out if you if you like Ryan 03:02.960 --> 03:05.440 I know he's a polarizing character on the podcast 03:05.440 --> 03:11.840 So and if you don't tell me the things I'm wrong about go for it. I would love to hear 03:12.360 --> 03:15.600 What my assumptions are cuz you know, sometimes it's hard to identify your own 03:15.600 --> 03:22.280 So if you hate me go on there point stuff out try to nitpick. I'm for it. How about you Chris? 03:22.280 --> 03:26.720 What's your bright spot? So we don't really have a recording schedule 03:26.720 --> 03:30.200 So people might not have noticed that we're on a little bit of a hiatus 03:30.200 --> 03:38.080 That's because I packed up all my stuff and moved to Chicago. So I'm finally here. I finally settled in I'm feeling good 03:38.080 --> 03:43.000 I'm enjoying the city. I'm just having a great time with a hanging out with friends that are 03:43.640 --> 03:47.040 Up here and you know, it's been hanging out and enjoying the city. Yeah 03:47.040 --> 03:52.680 How that what has been your highlight so far of Chicago? I know it's only been what like a few days, but 03:53.120 --> 03:55.360 What's the what's the best thing about it so far for you? 03:55.360 --> 04:00.360 I think the best thing like is just being able to just commute in different ways 04:00.360 --> 04:06.120 Like that was a big thing that I was frustrated about in my life was like whatever whenever I wanted to do something 04:06.120 --> 04:09.360 I had to drive and like I just I don't like suburbia 04:09.360 --> 04:14.760 I just don't feel like I'm built for suburbia not a big fan of driving just to like go to the grocery store 04:14.760 --> 04:19.560 So like today for example, I needed some ingredients for dinner 04:19.560 --> 04:20.400 I was cooking tonight 04:20.400 --> 04:25.440 And so I just walked to the grocery store and picked it up and just walked back 04:25.440 --> 04:29.840 I guess just so nice to just like walk somewhere or bike somewhere or take the 04:30.040 --> 04:34.640 Take the elevated train the L like when I go and visit people who are up north a little more 04:34.640 --> 04:38.680 I just you know tap my phone get on the train and then you know get where I'm going 04:38.680 --> 04:43.840 And I just enjoy the different ways to commute and just the density of the city all the different options 04:43.840 --> 04:45.840 I have and just also food 04:45.840 --> 04:50.600 I keep spending too much money on food. I've never had and it's just all so good 04:50.600 --> 04:55.160 Yeah, good thing you don't smoke don't have to buy those $15 packs of cigarette 04:57.160 --> 04:59.720 I guess that is a one of the many blessings 04:59.720 --> 05:02.200 It'd be expensive in Chicago 05:02.200 --> 05:05.000 Are they that bad? I didn't even know I 05:05.800 --> 05:09.560 Think it was around like or like American Spice 05:09.560 --> 05:13.440 Which is more like pricier ones around here. It's like seven or eight bucks 05:13.440 --> 05:21.280 I think when I was there it was like 13 14 or like 15 bucks like somewhere in there dang. Oh, yeah, you're right 05:22.280 --> 05:26.200 Yeah, so that's good. Wow. Yeah almost 17 bucks 05:26.920 --> 05:31.000 Yeah, there's who knows it might be more now. That was a while ago 05:31.000 --> 05:34.880 That was in college last time I looked at some of the things that I was looking at 05:34.880 --> 05:42.480 I'm looking at the I'm looking at a product page right now. It's 1678. Oh my god. Yes smoking there is 05:43.120 --> 05:45.760 Definitely a pricier hobby to have 05:46.560 --> 05:52.240 So today we have another interview among our series of interviews this one 05:52.240 --> 05:54.240 I think is the first one that's not Becca 05:55.200 --> 05:59.680 But we brought on a mutual friend from our past 05:59.680 --> 06:06.240 farther into Chris's past, but he was a friend of ours from uh, like leo cederville indiana in that area 06:06.240 --> 06:11.600 We went to school with him at least I went there or I was in school with him for like a year 06:11.600 --> 06:13.840 Chris had been with him for for a while 06:13.840 --> 06:18.640 But this was a guy that we had actually had like sure like they were childish 06:18.640 --> 06:24.640 But we had like theological it quotes theological debates with with him and and discussing 06:24.640 --> 06:30.400 At that point in time so it was fun to get to talk to him get his perspectives now because as you can see 06:30.400 --> 06:33.920 We're a bit different from when we were like in middle school and high school 06:33.920 --> 06:39.680 So it's fun to get his perspectives now over years that I mean I hadn't talked to him in a long time 06:39.680 --> 06:48.320 So it was it was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was really cool of like getting I guess spoiler alerts of the upcoming episode 06:48.320 --> 06:56.320 But he is still religious and it was interesting to talk to someone who had such different life experiences than us 06:56.320 --> 07:04.080 And multiple different ways but still being able to serve his community and um anyway 07:04.080 --> 07:09.280 Just because I know with the the Becca interviewers Becca was deconstructing more in our vein 07:09.280 --> 07:13.760 So I think it was really interesting to talk to someone who uh, deconstructed his life 07:13.760 --> 07:18.800 But uh, their reconstruction was more in the vein of staying religious 07:18.800 --> 07:26.560 I thought that was interesting to bring someone on and have a nice chat and he has a really really reverence for the bible as a holy scripture 07:26.560 --> 07:30.960 That I really appreciated him talking about and um, he's also a hebrew nerd 07:30.960 --> 07:38.720 Yeah, what a nerd no, but also for those of you that think deconstruction is like or not think but deconstruction is like 07:38.720 --> 07:44.240 A trigger word for you or something of the sort uh, you can deconstruct within a religion 07:44.240 --> 07:48.880 You can identify your beliefs really dig into them see where they came from and everything 07:48.880 --> 07:54.080 And that doesn't mean that you're going to like lose your faith or anything of that sort 07:54.080 --> 08:02.160 Like I I consider deconstruction to be a good thing across the board and it's useful within a religion as well 08:02.160 --> 08:03.840 Yeah, thank you 08:03.840 --> 08:09.120 Yeah, that's what I was trying to say thanks for piecing those thoughts together 08:09.120 --> 08:18.080 Because I think deconstruction is turning into almost a taboo word of sorts within at least like conservative christianity 08:18.080 --> 08:25.600 There's a lot of talks of deconstruction and progressive christianity and all these words becoming like just inherently bad 08:25.600 --> 08:29.440 Like you might not even know what they mean and yet you have negative feelings about it 08:29.440 --> 08:35.600 So I just want to say I mean I guess it's not coming from a reputable source for those people 08:35.600 --> 08:41.920 That those people I don't know for for those leaning that way but that's just that's just what I think 08:41.920 --> 08:48.000 I think it's good to really know what you believe I mean we were told all the time like figure out what you believe 08:48.000 --> 08:53.920 Learn what you believe don't just believe what what people tell you like that was told us and who knows if they actually meant it 08:53.920 --> 09:00.720 But if you want to do that you're gonna have to dig into a lot of the stuff that if you grew up within christianity was ingrained into you 09:00.720 --> 09:04.800 In which it's really easy to believe certain things and not really know why anymore 09:04.800 --> 09:09.840 So that's kind of the point of deconstruction is to figure out why you believe the things that you do 09:09.840 --> 09:15.440 Yeah, yeah and so with that please enjoy our interview with Nate 09:15.440 --> 09:20.640 Hey everybody we are back again with another episode of our interview with Nate 09:20.640 --> 09:26.880 Hey everybody we are back and we do have a very special guest on our show 09:26.880 --> 09:31.440 Name is Nate welcome to the show Nate. Hi thank you. Yeah thanks for coming on 09:31.440 --> 09:37.680 So we've been going through kind of like a series of having interviews and stuff with people coming on our podcast 09:37.680 --> 09:43.520 I think it's really cool and fun to have some some different voices on here not just Chris and I's 09:43.520 --> 09:48.640 So I'm really glad that you came on and hopefully we can get more people if you want to be on our show 09:48.640 --> 09:54.480 Hit us up at pay at hallwaytransgressions.com that's right Chris right? 09:54.480 --> 09:58.240 That's what I mean. Yeah yeah yeah cool what you said last time so 09:58.240 --> 09:59.280 H-E-Y 09:59.280 --> 10:01.600 H-E-Y not H-A-Y 10:02.240 --> 10:07.840 Anyways so first off Nate just tell us a little bit about yourself like your upbringing 10:08.640 --> 10:13.680 Like kind of what like your family was like and what what school was like growing up for you 10:13.680 --> 10:15.200 That is a huge question 10:15.200 --> 10:17.440 I know you get to include whatever you want 10:17.440 --> 10:24.240 So growing up I grew up in a very Christian family my uh I have a long line of uh 10:24.960 --> 10:30.560 Ancestors who were pastors or who did all sorts of different things my dad himself was a missionary 10:30.560 --> 10:36.960 Because he originally wanted to uh one up his my grandfather his dad but uh that was a huge portion 10:36.960 --> 10:42.640 Of my my life so we lived in Honduras for six years um from when I was two to when I was eight 10:42.640 --> 10:48.160 And then when I was eight we moved to Indiana um at that point time I knew nothing about American 10:48.160 --> 10:56.160 Culture and so I remember the first year the very first uh recess I had in third grade um was 10:56.160 --> 11:02.720 Walking around the playground by myself because I had no clue what to do um and so I mean that 11:02.720 --> 11:09.200 Kind of persisted um but I did eventually make friends but growing up in Indiana through high 11:09.200 --> 11:16.000 School and then um I mean I went to public school so I guess I got a better education than you guys 11:16.000 --> 11:25.920 Did um but uh when I graduated I I was I went to college initially for uh youth ministry um because 11:25.920 --> 11:30.960 I thought that's what I wanted to do and then realized I really really really hated public 11:30.960 --> 11:37.280 Speaking and still do but um I then transitioned to counseling because what I really wanted to do 11:37.280 --> 11:42.560 Was to create that like relationship with uh like teenagers because I haven't gone through 11:42.560 --> 11:48.160 That tumultuous time I thought oh this would be a great uh place for me to be um and I didn't want 11:48.160 --> 11:52.560 To be a pastor so that was a better option you know I had to carry on the family line of being 11:52.560 --> 11:59.280 Pastors but I um I graduated with my counseling degree I started a master's and then realized that 11:59.840 --> 12:05.200 Counseling what I wanted to do with counseling it's just it's it's not really feasible within 12:05.200 --> 12:10.160 The actual field and then realizing that I would probably come home every day carrying those 12:10.160 --> 12:14.560 Problems and I already deal with depression I really don't need others on top of that or at 12:14.560 --> 12:22.160 Least uh professionally others on top of that and so um I decided to quit that too I did a year um 12:22.160 --> 12:26.400 That I was going to work for a mental health place to see if that changed my mind to see if I really 12:26.400 --> 12:32.720 Enjoyed it still and found I hated it more than I could have imagined at the time um I worked for a 12:32.720 --> 12:38.080 Mental health facility or community mental health facility and so primarily I was working with um 12:38.080 --> 12:45.200 Mostly adults um but some children on teaching what they call essential skills um essentially 12:45.200 --> 12:52.240 It's just trying to help them live in our society as it is and um I I loved the clients I hated the 12:52.240 --> 12:58.640 Job itself I hated the people um or at least my supervisor at the time I hated the fact that um 12:58.640 --> 13:04.880 If I didn't get the exact amount of hours I needed um I was going to get doctor pay um most of my 13:04.880 --> 13:10.160 Clients were court ordered and so of course they don't want to go through this is a waste of their 13:10.160 --> 13:16.560 Time and so it was difficult to get anybody to actually meet with me to um even work with them to 13:16.560 --> 13:22.320 Help them learn these skills a lot of them were really resistant to that and so I just found I 13:22.320 --> 13:29.920 Was working 60 70 hour weeks getting paid for 30 hours and then just running myself ragged um and 13:29.920 --> 13:36.000 Since then I've I well actually I got fired from that but um got fired from that job and then 13:36.000 --> 13:39.200 Started working in it and I've since found a job that I'm very happy with 13:39.760 --> 13:47.440 Awesome yeah so you were wanting to focus mainly on like younger aged like not necessarily children 13:47.440 --> 13:52.000 But you were saying teenagers that's what your initial idea was yeah yeah specifically with 13:52.000 --> 13:57.760 Youth Ministry because I knew I really didn't want to do like actual preaching because I knew I hated 13:57.760 --> 14:02.320 Public speaking from the get-go I was like I can teach though it's different but I also found I 14:02.320 --> 14:07.120 Hated that too um but yeah so my initial was just the connection with the students I had a really 14:07.120 --> 14:12.560 Good relationship with my youth minister and so I wanted to carry that on for hopefully embody that 14:12.560 --> 14:18.480 For other kids but I'm kind of glad I didn't do that yeah but my wife does now so yeah that's 14:18.480 --> 14:22.640 Really I get to volunteer and have fun with that rather than having all of the responsibility of 14:22.640 --> 14:28.960 These kids yeah that's what I was gonna ask if you were volunteering at the same church yeah I do um 14:28.960 --> 14:33.760 I I mean I help her with just about everything she does I went on the mission trip this summer 14:33.760 --> 14:38.160 Um the only thing I can't really help with is stuff that happens like while I'm still working 14:38.160 --> 14:43.440 Um and she has one program that uh that they do while I'm still working yeah I really enjoy it I 14:43.440 --> 14:49.280 Love working with the kids I just I'm glad I don't have the responsibility of these kids as Christian 14:49.280 --> 14:54.560 Life if they even want to be a Christian I it there's a lot of questions with that it's hard to 14:54.560 --> 15:00.960 Hard to wrestle with sure so I mean I don't know how like deep we want to get into stuff or anything 15:00.960 --> 15:06.640 But when it comes to like volunteering there and when it comes to like Christian belief and whatnot 15:06.640 --> 15:11.920 Are you more on the side of like not necessarily evangelizing the kids or just like letting them 15:11.920 --> 15:18.240 Figure stuff out answering questions like how how do you kind of approach it our approach in particular 15:18.240 --> 15:23.520 When my wife and I were discussing this a lot of we've I mean we've been dating since we were 15:23.520 --> 15:29.520 Freshmen in college and uh since then and so not as long as you guys have but we have done a lot of 15:29.520 --> 15:35.920 Growing up together and so a lot of our philosophy and our deals are the same because we we grew up 15:35.920 --> 15:42.000 With worrisome situations but from us our main philosophy when it comes to youth ministry is that 15:42.000 --> 15:47.920 We want to provide the skills and the resources necessary for these students to develop their own 15:47.920 --> 15:52.480 Faith we don't want to teach them particular things that they are supposed to know we don't want to 15:52.480 --> 15:58.640 Teach them one particular idea of how the bible works we're very intentional with trying to be 15:58.640 --> 16:04.320 Open with it because we both the the college we went to was very much the same way they very much 16:04.320 --> 16:09.840 Taught that even though they were a church of christ school they didn't necessarily teach that as 16:09.840 --> 16:14.720 Gospel um we learned about all sorts of different philosophies about the bible and so 16:14.720 --> 16:20.480 With that we wanted to carry that on for the kids because we we value an actual personal relationship 16:20.480 --> 16:27.360 With christianity more than we do a indoctrinated uh brainwashed idea of christianity we want the 16:27.360 --> 16:32.480 Kids that have their own faith do you think we went through a indoctrination brainwashing 16:32.480 --> 16:39.440 Well now Ryan I had to put my finger on yeah because it's interesting because like I only really 16:39.440 --> 16:45.040 Had one type of experience with youth group which was county line like I just went I think I was 16:45.040 --> 16:50.160 Like in kindergarten when we started going to county line and it was like 100 200 people there 16:50.160 --> 16:54.240 At the time and now it's like thousands and they have satellite churches and whatnot so it's been 16:54.240 --> 17:00.800 Kind of crazy yeah I went there when I was like very young and just went up through the youth 17:00.800 --> 17:06.720 Group as it got bigger and bigger and it was always centered towards like this whole idea of 17:06.720 --> 17:14.320 Discipleship and like training us to stick with christianity you can see how well that turned out 17:14.320 --> 17:21.120 But they they still kind of give that idea of like just trying to get your kids to stay christians 17:21.120 --> 17:25.840 Like that's I feel like their goal is that not what you experienced that's not the kind of vibe 17:25.840 --> 17:32.720 You got going through youth group growing up for me I don't know it's hard to say I was I was the 17:33.520 --> 17:39.200 Youth ministers pet I was the intern for a couple years actually with him when I was in high school 17:39.200 --> 17:43.600 And I don't I'm trying to think back to his teachings that's not what sticks out to me 17:43.600 --> 17:49.280 Unfortunately because he did he did a great job from what I remember but honestly it was almost 17:49.280 --> 17:55.120 Certainly geared more towards keeping your faith was more important than anything else and I think 17:55.120 --> 18:00.720 Anything else and for me what actually stuck made me stick with it was more the relationship I had 18:00.720 --> 18:08.400 With my youth minister like 100 or I would say 95 percent of the um the positive impact I got out of 18:08.400 --> 18:13.760 Youth out of my youth group was the personal relationship I had with my youth minister and so 18:13.760 --> 18:18.480 That's what we try to embody more than anything else because we know lessons fade I can't remember 18:18.480 --> 18:23.840 A single lesson I got from my youth minister but I do remember the relationship I had I remember some 18:23.840 --> 18:29.520 I remember specifically being brought up on stage to discuss having pure relationships when going 18:29.520 --> 18:36.240 Through high school that was one of the examples apparently which I mean it makes sense yeah I 18:36.240 --> 18:41.360 Don't remember my church didn't do a lot with purity culture um we did have one big night that 18:41.360 --> 18:47.200 Was like hey be careful you know slippery slopes if you're gonna make boundaries you make them 18:47.200 --> 18:52.240 Like if you're gonna stand on the edge of a cliff you stand back against the wall you don't stand on 18:52.240 --> 18:57.040 The edge of it right so like why would you do that with sex I remember all that but like beyond that 18:57.040 --> 19:03.360 We didn't have a single other discussion of it interesting yeah I'm pretty sure I still have like 19:03.360 --> 19:09.760 Some silicone band ring that says something about purity on it somewhere nice you got a purity ring 19:09.760 --> 19:18.000 From your church yeah made out of silicone Chris like that oh we don't like no no Chris I think 19:18.000 --> 19:24.080 Immediately think immediately after getting married Kristen she'd just like buy like a five pack of 19:24.080 --> 19:28.560 Silicone rings just have one I just bought a really expensive one that was a really specific 19:28.560 --> 19:35.600 Thing to remember though it's weird how my memory works okay I have silicone rings from when we got 19:35.600 --> 19:41.760 Married like beforehand though I don't really wear a ring at all because it kills the skin underneath 19:41.760 --> 19:52.960 It and so it gets itchy and it sucks yeah I I wore my real like metal ring for maybe a week or two 19:53.680 --> 20:01.040 And then I had like this red rash like a ring rash around my finger I was like I can't I can't do it 20:01.040 --> 20:06.960 And I have a silicone one which is better but I still I rarely wear it with silicone rings too so I 20:06.960 --> 20:13.600 Don't really wear them very often the mines made out of wood so it's pretty cool nice yeah I got like 20:13.600 --> 20:19.440 A wood inlay with like cobalt chrome or something like that I don't know I bought it off of Etsy 20:19.440 --> 20:28.160 Hey so did I do we have the same ring no mine's fully wood so oh that's cool yeah I've always 20:28.160 --> 20:33.680 Liked earth tones more than metal and so I thought would be cool yeah see how fun this is we just get 20:33.680 --> 20:39.360 Side-tracked yeah wherever we want to go so we talked about I'm trying to think of where to go 20:40.560 --> 20:47.200 Yeah and your approach to it so you you do kind of focus more on the relationship with the students 20:47.200 --> 20:52.480 Well that's interesting so do you focus more on your personal relationship with the students or 20:52.480 --> 21:00.160 The student's relationship with God like is there a priority I would say there is a priority I would 21:00.160 --> 21:06.640 Say it matters more the relationship with God but acting more as like I guess a mentor role I hate 21:06.640 --> 21:11.760 Calling myself that I feel like it's a title given to somebody else not a title that I can give to 21:11.760 --> 21:15.760 Myself but that would be more what we shoot for is more of like a mentorship role like somebody you 21:15.760 --> 21:20.640 Can ask questions to that you wouldn't necessarily be able to ask anybody else and get actual advice 21:20.640 --> 21:26.480 From or whatever else but we do care more about the relationship with God of course we just figure 21:26.480 --> 21:32.960 That a relationship rather than teaching a personal relationship with people rather than direct 21:32.960 --> 21:38.160 Lessons is going to be a more powerful driver of that relationship with God I think I would 21:38.160 --> 21:42.240 Probably agree with that like I think most of the relationships that I had that I still like 21:42.240 --> 21:48.080 Respect and appreciate were like from church and my youth pastor and I had a good relationship with 21:48.080 --> 21:55.360 Him and as you can see we're talking about the the teachers mostly on this podcast that were in our 21:55.360 --> 22:01.200 Lives it's different yeah I didn't really have much of a good relationship with the the teachers 22:01.200 --> 22:07.760 At that school or that were in my life though I really liked learning the things I think it's 22:07.760 --> 22:15.200 Interesting that I looked back like I had good relationships with these teachers and the ones we 22:15.200 --> 22:21.120 Knew personally from hallway digressions but like I always looked back with like oh yeah they were 22:21.120 --> 22:26.000 Good people but once we started like listening to their podcasts and dissecting I think my view has 22:26.000 --> 22:30.400 Changed a lot so maybe it's better that you just don't go and look back at your old youth 22:30.400 --> 22:36.640 Pastors lessons and just like remember the relationship yeah I'll do that I'll do that 22:37.440 --> 22:42.640 Well it also depends because like with my youth pastor I can still look back on it and I still 22:42.640 --> 22:47.840 Think like the people at my church were were good people I can like look at the lessons and stuff 22:47.840 --> 22:53.600 And find like things that I might disagree with but I still have a lot of respect for those people 22:53.600 --> 22:59.440 And still like keep in touch every once in a while I find a lot of my respect for those who like were 22:59.440 --> 23:05.600 At my home church and whoever else that influenced my faith maybe not the most positive way is I 23:05.600 --> 23:11.280 I keep in mind that their intention for me was good they wanted they thought the best thing for 23:11.280 --> 23:16.480 Me was what they taught me and yeah it may not have been the best in the end I may have taken 23:16.480 --> 23:22.240 Something from it that was not good but I realized that what they were trying to do was what they 23:22.240 --> 23:28.320 Thought was best and I may not agree with what their their their result or what their result was 23:28.320 --> 23:33.280 For me but I do appreciate the intention there it's like you listened to our podcast and heard me 23:33.280 --> 23:39.680 Talk about intention and impact or something yeah maybe yeah because there there's a line drawn for 23:39.680 --> 23:47.040 Me where intention isn't good enough where I think someone can have great intention for for someone 23:47.040 --> 23:54.720 And act out of what they consider to be love but when the impact is either harmful or doesn't have 23:54.720 --> 24:00.160 The same impact that the intention was supposed to have and they keep doing the same things just out 24:00.160 --> 24:05.520 Of intention rather and just disregarding whatever impact it has because I'm doing this because I love 24:05.520 --> 24:11.680 You I'm doing this because whatever reason and just continuing to keep that mindset and not adapting 24:11.680 --> 24:17.840 I find kind of a line drawn there do you agree I can agree with that I think there's so many 24:17.840 --> 24:23.520 Different nuances to that situation because I think intentionality for me is the most important 24:23.520 --> 24:32.400 Thing but in the end impact and frequency of the action and how long it continued to last and all 24:32.400 --> 24:40.400 That stuff matters a whole lot too like you can say that a an abusive spouse may love their spouse 24:40.400 --> 24:44.560 But not realize that they're being abusive and in the end that doesn't change the fact that they're 24:44.560 --> 24:51.360 Being abusive and so like I don't disagree that there is definitely it's not just 100% intention 24:52.240 --> 24:59.280 But I think for me to be able to I think at times it can be a coping mechanism as well to realize that 24:59.280 --> 25:05.280 My pastor growing up may not have been the best guy but I can hope that his intention for me was the best 25:05.280 --> 25:11.280 I guess my youth pastor was great my head pastor was not so much but that's okay 25:11.280 --> 25:17.280 You grew up I guess Church of Christ like were your parents when they were missionaries was it for the Church of Christ? 25:17.280 --> 25:26.080 No so the well I guess I don't really know I kind of but the the the organization we went with is an 25:26.080 --> 25:34.480 Organization called Disciple Makers I don't think they express any particular bend in denomination 25:34.480 --> 25:41.440 Though most of the head individuals there or people on the board are members of the Church of Christ 25:41.440 --> 25:47.040 Movement and so like you could say maybe they're Church of Christ but like I don't think there's any 25:47.040 --> 25:54.320 They wouldn't limit to Church of Christ by any means what we did when we were in Honduras was we built 25:54.320 --> 26:01.360 A church building first and then two school buildings because the school buildings brought in students to learn 26:01.360 --> 26:07.520 Like well from American teachers who taught them bilingually which set them up well for the future with 26:07.520 --> 26:15.120 Business or whatever else to be able to speak English and then that allowed for the intention was growth 26:15.120 --> 26:21.600 From the roots of the community rather than giving them a fish instead trying to teach them such things 26:21.600 --> 26:25.600 They carry a biblical analogy. Oh I know isn't that crazy? 26:25.600 --> 26:35.600 It's like I grew up with pastors as my grandfather and father and uncle and so many people but yeah so what I really appreciate 26:35.600 --> 26:41.600 Because the Disciple Makers has continued to grow so we were one of the first missionaries because we worked with 26:41.600 --> 26:49.600 The now he's the head of the I don't he's not CEO like he's like the chairman of the board or whatever else 26:49.600 --> 26:57.600 One of the first people to actually work with them to move to Honduras but since they've grown to Nepal Guatemala 26:57.600 --> 27:05.600 A different place in Honduras and a few other places and what they do in Nepal was what I'm actually most appreciative of 27:05.600 --> 27:15.600 Is they have a school for evangelists within that teach specifically with Nepali people so they go in minister to themselves 27:15.600 --> 27:25.600 Because Nepal is technically a closed country you're not really supposed to evangelize at all within Nepal and so a random American 27:25.600 --> 27:33.600 White person walking around the country is going to have a lot more attention on them than say another Nepali person 27:33.600 --> 27:41.600 And so their their goal is to evangelize by building up the evangelizers rather than necessarily doing the evangelism themselves 27:41.600 --> 27:48.600 Which allows them to keep more of their faith than necessarily like you have to teach this have to teach this and have to teach this 27:48.600 --> 27:55.600 And allows for a little more growth because what I've found with my family and with other people that I grew up with was 27:55.600 --> 28:03.600 There's a particular set of very few things that matter for Christianity in my opinion especially for like salvation 28:03.600 --> 28:12.600 And so outside of that I don't necessarily care that much and I don't think it should be enough to cause division within the church 28:12.600 --> 28:21.600 For me like I don't care about women in ministry the Church of Christ some places do some places don't it really depends on the growth or the size of the church 28:21.600 --> 28:31.600 But like obviously my wife is a woman in ministry and so she like I don't care about that or specifically with baptism 28:31.600 --> 28:41.600 Like the episode that came out most recently the Church of Christ Church the general idea of it is that you need to be baptized for salvation 28:41.600 --> 28:51.600 It's an important aspect of it it happens in most most conversions within the Old Testament Acts in particular or in the New Testament in Acts in particular 28:51.600 --> 28:56.600 But my personal belief on it is that I think God's bigger than that 28:56.600 --> 29:03.600 There are some Church of Christ churches that have their baptismals in the hallway of the like other small little country church 29:03.600 --> 29:09.600 Because they'd rather you be baptized on your way out the door because if you got hit by a car that be baptized you're going to hell 29:09.600 --> 29:17.600 I didn't grow up within that church but I know of churches that did but for me I don't really care because I think God's bigger than that 29:17.600 --> 29:22.600 I don't think there's a bunch of babies going to hell because they weren't able to be baptized like yeah 29:22.600 --> 29:28.600 Well and that's I just realized that fallacy within the Church of Christ they're very specifically a believer's baptism 29:28.600 --> 29:36.600 So you have to be of age to be able to understand what you're doing which Lord knows most nine-year-olds 10 year olds 11 year olds aren't old enough to do that 29:36.600 --> 29:45.600 But besides the point to be able to be baptized and so there's a lot of babies in hell I guess according to some of their beliefs 29:45.600 --> 29:51.600 They probably have exceptions and stuff to accommodate you know you got to make people feel better 29:51.600 --> 29:55.600 Feel good right? You can interpret the Bible in some way to make it work 29:55.600 --> 30:04.600 Absolutely absolutely but yeah so for me growing up and from the people from what I learned from the people I grew up with 30:04.600 --> 30:13.600 Specifically my parents and a few of the faith like influential people in my life that it's more important that you have some of the basics 30:13.600 --> 30:22.600 Than it is that you have all of the advanced stuff and that's what I appreciate about disciple makers is that they aren't at least from what I have experienced 30:22.600 --> 30:30.600 And what I've been a part of they don't teach a particular doctrine it's more of a how to do it than it is a doctrinal based thing 30:30.600 --> 30:32.600 Gotcha and you're... 30:32.600 --> 30:33.600 You think they'll sponsor us now? 30:33.600 --> 30:34.600 No 30:34.600 --> 30:36.600 No, disciple makers re-sponsor us 30:36.600 --> 30:41.600 We're kind of like an anti-religion podcast 30:41.600 --> 30:43.600 Who? Sorry I'm confused 30:43.600 --> 30:45.600 What disciple makers? 30:45.600 --> 30:48.600 Disciple makers has zero money 30:48.600 --> 30:49.600 Oh 30:49.600 --> 30:54.600 All of their money goes out they don't really keep any of that so 30:54.600 --> 30:55.600 Too bad 30:55.600 --> 31:00.600 Unfortunately they don't really pay for advertising I think the only thing they really do is ICOM 31:00.600 --> 31:01.600 Oh gotcha 31:01.600 --> 31:05.600 International Convention of Missions or whatever 31:05.600 --> 31:08.600 I think we're an anti-religion podcast 31:08.600 --> 31:18.600 Based on what I've heard from I guess it bases on interpretation but I've gotten some comments that seems to be like it's being interpreted that way 31:18.600 --> 31:24.600 I can see the bend if you have an issue with deconstruction which people do 31:24.600 --> 31:25.600 That's fair 31:25.600 --> 31:33.600 And like if you don't espouse the Bible's literal people will say that as anti-religious at times 31:33.600 --> 31:36.600 Having experienced that so 31:36.600 --> 31:46.600 Nate you grew up in the Church of Christ and if I don't know if you mention it here but you attend like your wife works at and you attend United Methodist Church? 31:46.600 --> 31:47.600 Yes 31:47.600 --> 31:56.600 So my wife grew up United Methodist and so that was it's kind of an easy bend for her but also they're 31:56.600 --> 32:03.600 It's a growing thing now but they used to be one of the only denominations that accept women in leadership 32:03.600 --> 32:11.600 The tradition before was you can't teach boys older than 8 or 13 I think is the rule because you can't teach men 32:11.600 --> 32:23.600 Because that was a Pauline thing but that hasn't been the case for UMC for a long time in fact they were the first American I think first American denomination to 32:23.600 --> 32:29.600 What's the word I'm looking for? To ordain a woman I want to make sure of that but they're one of the first 32:29.600 --> 32:39.600 And so it's just an option if that makes sense like personally I don't necessarily subscribe to everything within the UMC 32:39.600 --> 32:43.600 I'm not a member of the church and I don't really intend to become a member of the church 32:43.600 --> 32:52.600 For me I don't think that we need to be so combative between denominations 32:52.600 --> 33:00.600 I think it just creates more division when you really don't need that but for me I just don't really care to join a different denomination 33:00.600 --> 33:05.600 I think I'm technically a member of Church of Christ from when I was a kid but I don't care about that 33:05.600 --> 33:16.600 I don't really intend to ever become a member of a different church but my wife grew up UMC and so it gives you that little bit of street cred to get a job 33:16.600 --> 33:26.600 Because it's still hard for a woman to get a job within any church and so it was just easier to look for UMCs but we also looked everywhere else 33:26.600 --> 33:31.600 Just about any church that would generally accept a woman she applied for 33:31.600 --> 33:36.600 It was just one of the first churches that actually went the entire way with her through hiring 33:36.600 --> 33:42.600 They had a lot of really good opportunities but a lot of like oh they're actually willing to preach and all these kind of things 33:42.600 --> 33:46.600 I mean I kind of am, why didn't you ask? 33:46.600 --> 33:49.600 That kind of stuff 33:49.600 --> 33:54.600 I find it kind of interesting, this is just based on what I know which might not be the complete picture 33:54.600 --> 34:00.600 But it seems like most high church settings are the ones that are more accepting 34:00.600 --> 34:01.600 Oh for sure 34:01.600 --> 34:05.600 And I find that super weird, you would think high church would mean more strict? 34:05.600 --> 34:14.600 Right? No, not at all. The Episcopalian I think is one of the single most welcoming churches I have ever been a part of 34:14.600 --> 34:20.600 But I go to these young upstart like Church of Christ churches and all these kind of things and they're the worst 34:20.600 --> 34:23.600 They're the least accepting of them 34:23.600 --> 34:28.600 So Mars Hill was not necessarily accepting of every single person 34:28.600 --> 34:35.600 Yeah they accepted the punk but that doesn't mean they accepted the trans individual or the gay individual or anybody else 34:35.600 --> 34:42.600 But one of my friends is a pastor at Episcopalian Church and it's one of the single loveliest places I've ever been 34:42.600 --> 34:46.600 Presbyterians are generally pretty open to it, UMC is pretty open to it 34:46.600 --> 34:54.600 So it's just like, well actually I say UMC is pretty open to it but currently they're going through a schism because of... 34:54.600 --> 34:56.600 Currently I thought that was over 34:56.600 --> 34:58.600 Well, no 34:58.600 --> 35:01.600 I thought they already separated it was like the global Methodist Church or something 35:01.600 --> 35:02.600 They did? 35:02.600 --> 35:09.600 They did separate but technically they weren't supposed to until 2024 when they were going to have another general conference on it 35:09.600 --> 35:13.600 And so there's still possibilities of that sort of schism happening 35:13.600 --> 35:21.600 But yeah, so I can say UMC is accepting but I mean they kind of are more now since the globalist church is kind of leaving 35:21.600 --> 35:24.600 So yeah, that's a win for UMC 35:24.600 --> 35:26.600 There you go, you get to keep the name too 35:26.600 --> 35:27.600 Yeah 35:27.600 --> 35:30.600 I count that as a win, if someone's leaving then you win 35:30.600 --> 35:32.600 Agreed, agreed 35:32.600 --> 35:37.600 I'd say some Lutheran churches too are very accepting too 35:37.600 --> 35:45.600 It's weird that high churches, like you would, yeah, I agree with you, with how heavy they are in tradition you would think that they are more not accepting 35:45.600 --> 35:48.600 Though how accepting is the Catholic Church, the original high church 35:48.600 --> 35:50.600 Right, yeah, that's true 35:50.600 --> 35:55.600 Maybe that's where we're getting that kind of bias from is just from Catholicism 35:55.600 --> 35:57.600 Yeah, maybe, maybe 35:57.600 --> 36:04.600 Maybe I should explain high church for people that don't necessarily know what we mean when we say high church 36:04.600 --> 36:09.600 So that term, I don't know if it's more academic or if it's used in other churches 36:09.600 --> 36:11.600 I didn't hear it in church at all, but I heard it in school 36:11.600 --> 36:15.600 And that is high church kind of means more, I'm gonna have to explain in other words 36:15.600 --> 36:25.600 So high church is churches that are more liturgical, which is liturgy just has to do with like the practice, rituals, different like steps that are involved I guess 36:25.600 --> 36:28.600 Like that have been passed down almost through a long time 36:28.600 --> 36:37.600 So that's where like Catholicism is high church because they have a lot of rituals, a lot of call of response type things within their liturgy 36:37.600 --> 36:41.600 Their church almost goes through like everyone knows what to expect when they're going through it 36:41.600 --> 36:48.600 And where like low church would be like what I grew up with, which is you have announcements, you have music, then you have a sermon, then you're done 36:48.600 --> 36:50.600 Like those are the three aspects 36:50.600 --> 36:58.600 High church has a bit more to it where they have different things that are honestly kind of intimidating when you don't know what you're doing in them 36:58.600 --> 36:59.600 Absolutely 36:59.600 --> 37:05.600 Like I remember attending, I think I went to a Methodist church in college at one point 37:05.600 --> 37:16.600 And what's the saying that people always use, I don't know if it's United Methodist or it's just a general thing that I never grew up with, which was, oh no 37:16.600 --> 37:18.600 Is it peace be with you and also with you? 37:18.600 --> 37:19.600 Yeah, I think that's the one 37:19.600 --> 37:24.600 Peace be with you and the responses and also with you or whatever it is 37:24.600 --> 37:28.600 Yeah, and some people just shorten it and go peace 37:28.600 --> 37:29.600 Yep 37:29.600 --> 37:40.600 I've been to a few different situations with that, so like our church in particular is, there is a traditional service and then a modern service 37:40.600 --> 37:45.600 I usually don't get to go into the traditional service because that's when their Sunday school is 37:45.600 --> 37:53.600 And I'm in with my wife teaching Sunday school, so, but the traditional service, he wears the traditional vestments 37:53.600 --> 37:59.600 The garb makes him look like a priest, but during the modern service he doesn't 37:59.600 --> 38:06.600 He's an older gentleman, so he still wears his suit and whatever else, but he doesn't have to 38:06.600 --> 38:12.600 And they sing more hymns during the traditional service than they would in the modern service and all that kind of fun stuff 38:12.600 --> 38:20.600 But yeah, a lot of the evangelical churches, I would say, well, no, I can't say that, that's not a good 38:20.600 --> 38:21.600 Or general 38:21.600 --> 38:23.600 Or low church, but that's not 38:23.600 --> 38:24.600 It's a generalization 38:24.600 --> 38:33.600 Yeah, yeah, the evangelical churches that you tend to hear more often, hear more about tend to be the low church places 38:33.600 --> 38:40.600 Yeah, and when saying low church, that's not like an insult or anything, it's just like terminology that's used to describe stuff, so 38:40.600 --> 38:46.600 No one get angry about us using low church or high church, it's just a technical specification 38:46.600 --> 38:49.600 I wonder if originally it was intended to be an insult 38:49.600 --> 38:51.600 I hope not 38:51.600 --> 38:54.600 I don't know, there's a lot of petty people in church history 38:54.600 --> 38:56.600 That's true 38:56.600 --> 39:03.600 So yeah, within the modern services, do they still have a lot of the liturgy or is it more like the evangelical churches? 39:03.600 --> 39:05.600 It's a lot more like evangelical churches 39:05.600 --> 39:06.600 Gotcha 39:06.600 --> 39:15.600 He preaches about what he wants to preach, it's not like the Catholic church where every week is based off of something from there 39:15.600 --> 39:24.600 I forget the name of the book, but it feels a lot more like growing at the Church of Christ or what County Line is, I would guess 39:24.600 --> 39:25.600 Yeah 39:25.600 --> 39:35.600 Which, there's something to be said about holding on to traditions, I know non-denominational kind of went away from that because they wanted freedom 39:35.600 --> 39:46.600 Let the spirit lead, I think is the terminology that they use, but there's something really beautiful about a group of, not just a group of people, but groups of people over time 39:46.600 --> 39:53.600 Saying the same types of prayers and doing the same types of things, I always found really cool that I didn't get to grow up with 39:53.600 --> 40:02.600 So one of the books that I got most invested in I think in college was the Book of Common Prayer, because that was a foreign thing to me 40:02.600 --> 40:08.600 And then I started saying prayers that people had been saying for years, decades, who knows how long 40:08.600 --> 40:19.600 There's absolutely a beauty to that, it becomes a culture in itself where you find your little, I don't know, sometimes we'll feel safer within those situations 40:19.600 --> 40:30.600 Because we as humans love tradition and consistency and patterns and whatever else and high churches are more adapted to that than most 40:30.600 --> 40:41.600 Yeah, one of the professors I connected with the most in college was also more of an introvert, maybe social anxiety type of person 40:41.600 --> 40:47.600 And I was talking about how I was planning to go into ministry, but I hated public prayer 40:47.600 --> 40:49.600 I hated public prayer 40:49.600 --> 40:58.600 And going to school for Bible and religion, you tend to have a lot of people ask you to pray because they're like, you're going to school for Bible, will you pray for us? 40:58.600 --> 41:01.600 You know how to pray 41:01.600 --> 41:08.600 So she had suggested what she does, which is she memorized the prayer of thanksgiving from the Book of Common Prayer 41:08.600 --> 41:11.600 And that's just the prayer that she used whenever people asked her to pray 41:11.600 --> 41:14.600 I respect that, that is a great idea 41:14.600 --> 41:22.600 It makes it way easier, coming up with stuff on the spot was always such an anxiety-induced experience growing up for me 41:22.600 --> 41:36.600 I hated it so much and my family was the type that would be like, I almost dreaded dinner sometimes because when I was younger we'd come to dinner and my dad would ask one of us kids to pray for the meal and you never know who he was going to ask 41:36.600 --> 41:39.600 So in my head I'm just like, please don't ask me to pray 41:39.600 --> 41:40.600 Please don't, please don't, please don't 41:40.600 --> 41:43.600 Like, right, you want to pray? I was like, yeah, I'll pray 41:43.600 --> 41:44.600 You can't say no 41:44.600 --> 41:47.600 No, you can't be like, I don't want to pray 41:47.600 --> 41:49.600 It's not an option 41:49.600 --> 42:00.600 Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff that I, like, I wouldn't necessarily say I'm a Christian anymore, but there's a lot of stuff that I took from my experience within Christianity and just like from college 42:00.600 --> 42:06.600 I connected a lot with professors at my school and my school was more of like a progressive theology department 42:06.600 --> 42:16.600 Like the Christian culture there was not, it was very conservative Christian culture, which was really interesting because the theology department was very progressive in their teachings 42:16.600 --> 42:25.600 And there's a lot of stuff that I took that like, like even prayer, like I wouldn't call it prayer anymore, but the way I used to pray I now use as like meditation 42:25.600 --> 42:37.600 I fully agree with you. Yeah, a lot of, I mean, I went to a class at one point at ICOM that was about, I took it because I wanted to see how funny it was 42:37.600 --> 42:49.600 It was about how yoga and other Eastern practices are bringing the devil to the United States. And it was the worst theology I ever realized 42:49.600 --> 42:55.600 And then I found out that the people who taught the class are actually really good friends with somebody I'm related to 42:55.600 --> 43:11.600 So I was like, oh no, but how like the, I never really took yoga, so I don't remember all the different poses, but like praising the sun I know is actually soul born 43:11.600 --> 43:21.600 But hey, it's a similar thing, but I don't remember it. Yeah, but like calling the devil down your spine or something, it was just super dumb 43:21.600 --> 43:31.600 Yeah, it was always like, did you grow up kind of with like a theology of fear? Would you say? Like I would say I grew up with a theology of fear where everything 43:31.600 --> 43:44.600 When it comes to like, like almost when I say conservative, almost like I relate to this theology of fear, like you got to be careful. You got to be always worried about what you're taking in because it can affect you type of thing 43:44.600 --> 43:53.600 Did you have that? I would say my church was like that. My parents weren't and my parents were a lot more of an influence on my Christian faith than the church was 43:53.600 --> 44:06.600 But I remember being in a musical for the church where one of the songs was I only remember like the chorus was like input, output, what comes in is what comes out 44:06.600 --> 44:17.600 It's all about like music and like bad words and all of this kind of stuff. And I realized like that is definitely a fear culture idea, but my parents never really did that 44:17.600 --> 44:31.600 My dad listened to classic rock for the entirety of my growing up years and my grandmother was scared of stuff. She got fully sucked into the satanic panic times, but my dad kind of fought that a little bit 44:31.600 --> 44:43.600 And I mean, good to hear having heard some of the experiences of my dad and whatever else like he okay. I don't know my personal beliefs about spiritual warfare aspects of things 44:43.600 --> 45:02.600 I'm very much like, I don't know, but my dad's told stories about times he's been a part of an exorcism and things like that. And those are kind of terrifying, but my dad always made sure to highlight the fact that my faith in a way protects me 45:02.600 --> 45:25.600 And my God is more powerful than the things happening there and all that kind of stuff. And so they always taught a very like more of a courage aspect of it or a standing up to it or they've encouraged me to deconstruct at times to ask me hard questions that I wouldn't have asked myself otherwise or be there for me to ask them questions 45:25.600 --> 45:39.600 And so I'm very, very lucky to have the healthy parent theology times that I've had. Yeah, that's cool. Plus it probably is beneficial that your parent were they both pastors or just 45:39.600 --> 45:50.600 Technically it was just my dad, but I mean the role that the pastor's wife feels is so right. It feels like she also was too. 45:50.600 --> 46:08.600 So they were probably more confident in their own faith that they were willing to do that for you. I would say there's probably a lot of parents that aren't as confident in their faith and so they're almost worried about questions or questioning of anything in there and so 46:08.600 --> 46:22.600 I mean my parents went to a foreign country with no exit plan to preach about God. So like I feel like there's a level to like you have to have to have some faith and some confidence in yourself. Otherwise, there's no way. 46:22.600 --> 46:31.600 And they actually talk about that. Their first year abroad was some of the hardest times in their marriage and our family life and in their faith because I mean it's terrifying. 46:31.600 --> 46:42.600 Being away from home, your safety nets of your family, your friends, any of those people and then not even they spoke the language of course, but like it's not your language. It's not what you're used to. 46:42.600 --> 46:55.600 The music on the radio is not what you're used to. The people around you aren't speaking your natural tongue. Like there's a lot of things that culture shock hits hard, but then it hits harder if you don't have a plan to get home. 46:55.600 --> 47:02.600 If you didn't buy a ticket on a plane to get home, like it hits a little bit hard because you kind of just dove into the deep end. 47:02.600 --> 47:11.600 And they talk about how that strengthened them more than it broke them down, but they realize how difficult it was for that to be the case. 47:11.600 --> 47:27.600 So I tend to laugh at the... I'm too judgmental of young missionaries coming out of college, especially because I went to school with them and I'm like, oh, I want to see this happen. 47:27.600 --> 47:30.600 I don't know how well this is going to work out. 47:30.600 --> 47:44.600 Yeah. Yeah. I knew some people. I think there was one person that was from my church that was... I kind of looked up to because like he was younger, you know, like you tend to look up to someone who's closer to your age for some reason. 47:44.600 --> 47:56.600 But he went and started... I don't know if he started or like just became very involved in some water filtration service in somewhere in Africa, I think. 47:56.600 --> 47:57.600 That's awesome. 47:57.600 --> 48:04.600 But yeah, and he like dropped everything and just like moved there and married, I think, his wife there too. 48:04.600 --> 48:06.600 That's intense. 48:06.600 --> 48:12.600 But like it takes some guts to up and move to a whole different continent. 48:12.600 --> 48:16.600 I was going to say though, it's kind of looking pretty appealing to move to a different continent. 48:16.600 --> 48:22.600 A different continent, but maybe not for that reason, because I agree with you. I wouldn't mind. 48:22.600 --> 48:35.600 Oh man. So I'm just curious and I want to see how you would put yourself. So let's say there's like a spectrum of Christianity and like I don't like making it dualistic, but just for the sake of this question. 48:35.600 --> 48:36.600 Okay. 48:36.600 --> 48:42.600 Let's say conservative is like on one side and progressive is on the other. Like that's the spectrum. Where would you place yourself on there? 48:42.600 --> 48:53.600 I would very much be on the progressive side of it. It was like, okay. That's a weird question a little bit because there's a level I could ask. 48:53.600 --> 48:58.600 Is it like, are you talking theology wise or interpretations of the Bible wise or? 48:58.600 --> 49:05.600 I tend to think those are kind of linked because if you interpret the Bible in a certain way, it's going to affect your own theology. 49:05.600 --> 49:09.600 That's valid. I think when I explained myself, it was confusing. 49:09.600 --> 49:16.600 So for me, I take a very conservative view with translation of the Bible because I took Hebrew in college. 49:16.600 --> 49:25.600 And so I'm particular about that. But when it comes to actual theology points, I'm very much on the progressive side. 49:25.600 --> 49:30.600 I mean, it's kind of hard not to be considering my wife's and I's lifestyle. 49:30.600 --> 49:41.600 She's a woman who is in a church leadership role at the church she's in. She's technically the family minister, not just the youth minister, but her main job is youth ministry. 49:41.600 --> 49:46.600 And she is demisexual. I am ace. 49:46.600 --> 49:52.600 And which, I mean, neither of these things are really against the Bible in all reality. 49:52.600 --> 50:01.600 It's I guess what Demi it can be because it tends to lean more towards like the bisexual range than it does straight because of the whole. 50:01.600 --> 50:05.600 That's a long discussion. We don't have to get people can look at it. 50:05.600 --> 50:09.600 Yeah, look at me. If you want to if you want to learn about that. 50:09.600 --> 50:14.600 Yes. So and so we kind of have to lean that way. 50:14.600 --> 50:22.600 I tend to lean on a more progressive view of creation, especially with how I mean all of my opinions. 50:22.600 --> 50:31.600 I don't hold that strongly to like I have opinions, but they're not necessarily things that I would teach others on or like this is absolute truth. 50:31.600 --> 50:34.600 Yeah, because I hate that idea. Obviously, I've talked about that previously. 50:34.600 --> 50:40.600 But for me, I yeah, definitely on the progressive side for sure. 50:40.600 --> 50:45.600 How do you feel about most used English translations of the Bible? 50:45.600 --> 50:47.600 It heavily depends on their purpose. 50:47.600 --> 50:52.600 Like how do you feel about like NIV is what I grew up with. 50:52.600 --> 50:54.600 Do you like the ARV Bible? 50:54.600 --> 51:00.600 Isn't that bad, especially after some of its its revisions? 51:00.600 --> 51:10.600 It's I mean, there's there's issues with it because I mean, we didn't add homosexual to the Bible until the early 1900s or mid 1900s. 51:10.600 --> 51:14.600 Yeah, like there are aspects to it that are obviously issues like issues. 51:14.600 --> 51:19.600 But my my problem would more lie on what is the point of your reading? 51:19.600 --> 51:23.600 Like am I wanting to make it understandable for kids? 51:23.600 --> 51:28.600 Then I don't really mind the message is certain portions of the message. 51:28.600 --> 51:30.600 I'm not going to read it for study. 51:30.600 --> 51:42.600 My personal choice is typically the ESV or the NASB just because they tend to be more word for word translations rather than idea for idea translations. 51:42.600 --> 51:49.600 Yeah, I don't think it's a great idea to pretend that we know what the biblical authors were thinking. 51:49.600 --> 51:52.600 Like there's a level to like, yeah, that's how we should interpret. 51:52.600 --> 51:58.600 But I don't think it's I don't think it can be done for the sake of everybody else to read it. If that makes sense. 51:58.600 --> 52:06.600 I'd rather it be done more literally so that I can make that interpretation rather than for somebody else to make that interpretation for me like homosexual. 52:06.600 --> 52:21.600 Yeah, yeah, because for people that don't know, there's a lot of assumptions that are made when translating the Bible because you got to think people that wrote this thing were from a long lost culture that we can't understand. 52:21.600 --> 52:26.600 And so there's a lot of assumptions that have to be made about that culture and about what those people were going through, like the environment. 52:26.600 --> 52:29.600 If you don't know, environment has a big impact on culture. 52:29.600 --> 52:34.600 And so I mean, a culture that changed massively over time to over centuries. 52:34.600 --> 52:39.600 So it's much more complex than I think people realize. 52:39.600 --> 52:46.600 Absolutely. It took me learning Hebrew and getting more into the Old Testament to have a lot more. 52:46.600 --> 52:53.600 I mean, I always respected the Jewish culture and the Jewish people, but like I have a lot more respect for them than I ever did previously. 52:53.600 --> 52:54.600 Same. 52:54.600 --> 53:00.600 And I heavily appreciate that that whole culture and the beliefs around it. 53:00.600 --> 53:05.600 I've always wanted to celebrate Passover, but I've never gotten the opportunity. 53:05.600 --> 53:09.600 Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that I never practiced growing up either. 53:09.600 --> 53:17.600 Like it wasn't until college that I first practiced Lent. Like, yeah, didn't even know really what that was. 53:17.600 --> 53:19.600 There were so many different things happened in college. 53:19.600 --> 53:23.600 I was like, huh, Christianity can be very different than the one I grew up with. 53:23.600 --> 53:25.600 Absolutely. Absolutely. 53:25.600 --> 53:29.600 Especially like Messianic Judaism. It's really not that different. 53:29.600 --> 53:33.600 You just like you just practice the Jewish culture while believing in Jesus. 53:33.600 --> 53:39.600 Like, just so everyone knows, there's stuff to gain from everyone. 53:39.600 --> 53:45.600 No matter if you disagree with them, like you can gain something. You can learn something from everything. 53:45.600 --> 53:53.600 Like understanding the roots between Islam and Christianity or all of those different things. 53:53.600 --> 53:59.600 Yeah. Doesn't always have to be defensive. There's stuff to learn. 53:59.600 --> 54:00.600 Yeah. 54:00.600 --> 54:08.600 That feels like a subtext to our last episode. If you want to learn more about that, see episode five. 54:08.600 --> 54:13.600 What's funny is I never actually listened to that half. So I only know about the subject. 54:13.600 --> 54:15.600 I don't know what actually was discussed. 54:15.600 --> 54:19.600 Oh, but that's actually really funny because you just nailed it. 54:19.600 --> 54:21.600 Yeah. Yeah. 54:21.600 --> 54:25.600 Because you probably would know more about it too. So you took a bunch of Hebrew. 54:25.600 --> 54:32.600 I took like three semesters of Hebrew and then took like three years of Greek. I went the other route. 54:32.600 --> 54:37.600 I took two years. So four total semesters. I think two. Yeah. Four total semesters. 54:37.600 --> 54:45.600 We started with, I think a class of like 13. I ended the class with two. There was one other person with me. 54:45.600 --> 54:50.600 Yeah, that makes sense. My last single hardest class I ever took. 54:50.600 --> 54:55.600 The single hardest education thing I've ever done was Hebrew. 54:55.600 --> 54:58.600 I found Greek much easier. Sorry. 54:58.600 --> 55:07.600 I mean, it makes sense. It serves as some of the basis for our current language versus Hebrew does not. Lord, it does not. 55:07.600 --> 55:11.600 And honestly, the characters are harder than Greek characters. 55:11.600 --> 55:16.600 Absolutely. And you have to, well, if you're supposed to, if you're writing them correctly, you're writing them from right to left. 55:16.600 --> 55:22.600 And now we understand the issue with everybody who is left handed and getting stuff on their hands as they write. 55:22.600 --> 55:30.600 And I'm sorry. Oh, I just got the like Hebrew keyboard on my computer and would type up everything. 55:30.600 --> 55:37.600 Yeah. Yeah. We did a lot more paperwork than we did. Yuck. Type, type, type stuff. 55:37.600 --> 55:43.600 Yeah, I did like all of my homework and on a computer. That's nice. That's nice. I loved my Hebrew class. 55:43.600 --> 55:48.600 I loved it. I struggled massively through it. 55:48.600 --> 55:53.600 And I appreciate that because it taught a lot of perseverance aspects. 55:53.600 --> 56:03.600 I mean, once you get that. So literally it was three people after the first semester, after like the first couple of weeks of the first semester, actually. 56:03.600 --> 56:08.600 And then after that, it was two people that went on to the second year. 56:08.600 --> 56:13.600 And I was like, well, I can't leave this guy now. Like, I'm in it now. 56:13.600 --> 56:20.600 I didn't even need the class anymore. I could have tested out Spanish way earlier, but I was like, I'm going to learn this. 56:20.600 --> 56:27.600 But I'm happy I actually stuck with it because it did. Yeah. Are you still doing any translating? 56:27.600 --> 56:36.600 Not really. I when I read, I like to read out of my I have an inner linear for the Old Testament that I like to read out of. 56:36.600 --> 56:45.600 That's it's an ESV and Hebrew inner linear. But for the most part, I'm not necessarily doing a lot of like actual translation. 56:45.600 --> 56:52.600 Gotcha. That kind of got beat out of me during that my 25 page paper about one particular chapter. 56:52.600 --> 56:58.600 Yeah. Yeah, I did that like three days and I hated myself the entire time. 56:58.600 --> 57:08.600 Funny story. Part of the like part of the catalyst for me switching to a Bible and religion degree was I was at Purdue studying electrical engineering 57:08.600 --> 57:14.600 and I needed some sort of elective and there was an actual biblical Hebrew course at Purdue. 57:14.600 --> 57:19.600 I was like, that sounds fun. Who people make fun of me for choosing that as like an elective course. 57:19.600 --> 57:23.600 I got made fun of. I went to a Bible college. 57:23.600 --> 57:29.600 Guys, come on. But yeah, I took that Hebrew course and really enjoyed it. 57:29.600 --> 57:36.600 And that was part of the switch over to Bible and religion going back to we're not back but going to Anderson. 57:36.600 --> 57:47.600 Yeah, I it's probably one of the things that I'm most proud of in the end is being able to say and it like it's influenced my perspective on the Bible and all that kind of thing. 57:47.600 --> 57:59.600 Like for me, I'm going to bring up a very fun topic for me. Genesis one is poetry and poetry written for people who weren't necessarily looking for a science book. 57:59.600 --> 58:09.600 So do I think it needs to be literal? No, do I? I know. I know. I don't think it needs to be literal, but I don't necessarily think it needs to be that far off either. 58:09.600 --> 58:13.600 Does that make sense? Like I think it was more of like a figurative metaphor than anything. 58:13.600 --> 58:20.600 And I mean, here's a quick lesson. The word for day in Hebrew doesn't necessarily mean 24 hours. 58:20.600 --> 58:27.600 It can mean age or epoch or anything. So like, let's just take that and then extrapolate from there. 58:27.600 --> 58:33.600 And that's how you get Christians that believe in older. Yeah, that's my personal leaning. 58:33.600 --> 58:44.600 And secondarily, I think if God created and God is God, then eventually science should grow to agree with him rather than disagree. 58:44.600 --> 58:55.600 You think because God created it. So I wouldn't. And like I find at times there is reassurance in science and all that kind of stuff for me. 58:55.600 --> 59:06.600 And so recognizing that God that Satan didn't put dinosaur bones in the ground. That's not what happened. Come on. 59:06.600 --> 59:14.600 Like or I remember espousing in high school being like there's a mountain in France that if you carbon date it, it's actually upside down. 59:14.600 --> 59:19.600 I remember saying that kind of stuff. And I'm like, I'm kind of mad at myself for just bringing these random things up. 59:19.600 --> 59:23.600 I'm like, yeah, actually, carbon dating is total crap. 59:23.600 --> 59:31.600 You know, we used to have like little like when I came to Leo, didn't we have little debates over stuff like this every once in a while? 59:31.600 --> 59:35.600 I remember getting a baptism debate. I remember that too, actually. 59:35.600 --> 59:45.600 And I'm sorry for that argument I had with you. It's I enjoyed it. It's fun. It was always fun. It was fun. 59:45.600 --> 59:56.600 I know I was never mad. I just remember like our little brainwashed selves fighting over different local traditions that we had no clue about. 59:56.600 --> 59:59.600 And honestly, I still don't know everything about. 59:59.600 --> 01:00:04.600 Speaking of apologizing for things, I still have a vivid memory that I will now apologize for. 01:00:04.600 --> 01:00:13.600 We were really into that whole thing where you hit your knee into the back of someone else's knee to make them like, yeah, I remember doing that to you, Nate. 01:00:13.600 --> 01:00:17.600 And you getting very upset about it. Yeah, I'm very bad. 01:00:17.600 --> 01:00:23.600 I was a I was a very self-conscious kid. I remember playing soccer with you, Ryan. 01:00:23.600 --> 01:00:29.600 And unfortunately, you were very good at soccer and one of the few that actually was better in gym class. 01:00:29.600 --> 01:00:32.600 And I remember playing against you and you kept scoring. 01:00:32.600 --> 01:00:40.600 So eventually you found and I kicked it directly at you hard. I don't remember that one. I hit you in the back. 01:00:40.600 --> 01:00:43.600 That's awesome. I deserved it. 01:00:43.600 --> 01:00:51.600 I people always got angry at me because they said I tried too hard in gym class, but I found that if I didn't try, it wasn't fun. 01:00:51.600 --> 01:00:55.600 I fully agree with you. And I wasn't good at everything. I just tried. 01:00:55.600 --> 01:01:03.600 Yeah. Oh, man. You got mad in a liquid gym class one time. Oh, yeah, I did. 01:01:03.600 --> 01:01:09.600 I put a dude on the ground. Oh, I didn't like punch him. 01:01:09.600 --> 01:01:11.600 But it was more like a tripping thing. 01:01:11.600 --> 01:01:18.600 Like I pulled him back and over my leg, like to put him on the ground and then stormed out of the gym class. 01:01:18.600 --> 01:01:23.600 Oh, God is gracious. And then I didn't get sent to like the principal or anything. 01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:28.600 The gym teacher came in and was just like, yeah, I heard like about what happened. 01:01:28.600 --> 01:01:31.600 It's like, I'll tell you what, just apologize to the class and you'll be good. 01:01:31.600 --> 01:01:37.600 I was like, OK, not to the kid, to the whole class. 01:01:37.600 --> 01:01:40.600 No, yeah, for disrupting the whole thing. Yeah. 01:01:40.600 --> 01:01:44.600 Yeah, not for throwing the kid on the ground. Yeah. No, he deserved it. 01:01:44.600 --> 01:01:48.600 I don't feel bad about that one. He did deserve it. 01:01:48.600 --> 01:01:54.600 I'm sure you were in the right. No, no one's right or wrong. 01:01:54.600 --> 01:01:58.600 I'm just I don't feel bad about it. There you go. 01:01:58.600 --> 01:02:02.600 You don't need to apologize to him now like you needed to when you hit him in the back of the knee. 01:02:02.600 --> 01:02:07.600 I did. I felt very bad about that one after I got to see the impact of my actions. 01:02:07.600 --> 01:02:13.600 I was like, oh, I don't even know why I would be a fun thing because it probably hurt. 01:02:13.600 --> 01:02:16.600 I was kind of like an aggressive person. 01:02:16.600 --> 01:02:24.600 It probably you honestly probably hurt my pride more than anything because there was a very particular girl I wanted to impress. 01:02:24.600 --> 01:02:27.600 And getting hit in the back of the knee was not going to work. 01:02:27.600 --> 01:02:32.600 Yeah, because I think it almost made you collapse on the ground like it very well could have. 01:02:32.600 --> 01:02:34.600 Yeah, it was. I don't remember it at all. 01:02:34.600 --> 01:02:36.600 Like not even a little bit. It's pretty vivid. 01:02:36.600 --> 01:02:40.600 I've ever. Yeah, I must. But you can't apologize. 01:02:40.600 --> 01:02:43.600 That's also a hurt to your pride. I can't apologize. 01:02:43.600 --> 01:02:47.600 Oh, yeah. No, I'm just going to I'm just going to get you back. 01:02:47.600 --> 01:02:50.600 I'm going to find you and then hit you in the back of the knee. 01:02:50.600 --> 01:02:52.600 Blow out your knee. Do it. 01:02:52.600 --> 01:02:58.600 Was that also the year that I was doing the whole like pulling up someone's foot by putting my foot under their foot like from behind? 01:02:58.600 --> 01:03:02.600 Probably. I remember doing it. 01:03:02.600 --> 01:03:06.600 I was thinking like this stuff. You like messing with people walking. 01:03:06.600 --> 01:03:08.600 I really like to messing with people. 01:03:08.600 --> 01:03:15.600 If we're apologizing to people now, I'm going to apologize to Chris because I hit him in the back of the knee so hard he did fall once. 01:03:15.600 --> 01:03:20.600 So Chris, not Chris Thurber. Sorry. Not this Chris. 01:03:20.600 --> 01:03:24.600 I know it's different, Chris. Yeah. And I feel bad for that. 01:03:24.600 --> 01:03:28.600 Sorry, Chris. Ryan's hit me in the throat a couple times and has never apologized. 01:03:28.600 --> 01:03:31.600 So no, I should feel lucky that he apologized to you, Nate. 01:03:31.600 --> 01:03:35.600 I apologize to Chris. Chris, that's coming to him. 01:03:35.600 --> 01:03:40.600 I feel like Ryan was it was pretty mean to all of us geeky kids. 01:03:40.600 --> 01:03:44.600 I was because like I was kind of like a geeky kid. 01:03:44.600 --> 01:03:47.600 Like I was into all of the geeky stuff. 01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:50.600 Yeah, but you were actually athletic. Yeah. 01:03:50.600 --> 01:03:54.600 And so I would use that against everyone else. 01:03:54.600 --> 01:03:59.600 You hung out with all the geeks and then you were actually athletic and cool. I see how it is. 01:03:59.600 --> 01:04:03.600 Yeah. Yeah. Best of both worlds because the geeky stuff is way more fun. 01:04:03.600 --> 01:04:08.600 And I can just do that. I could just go play sports if I wanted to, which I did. 01:04:08.600 --> 01:04:13.600 I was like, I'm done with this. People take it too seriously. 01:04:13.600 --> 01:04:16.600 High school seniors took it too seriously. Really? 01:04:16.600 --> 01:04:22.600 Yeah, because they were all looking like my reasoning was like they're looking for like recruiters and stuff. 01:04:22.600 --> 01:04:27.600 Yeah. Yeah. College. And it's like, I'm not going to take this seriously enough to like make our team look the best it can be. 01:04:27.600 --> 01:04:30.600 Like I don't care about how our team looks. 01:04:30.600 --> 01:04:34.600 So it's both a noble thing and then and also selfish. 01:04:34.600 --> 01:04:37.600 Like I just don't want to play with these guys anymore. Yeah. 01:04:37.600 --> 01:04:42.600 I quit soccer in going into freshman year, I think. 01:04:42.600 --> 01:04:49.600 I didn't know eighth grade year because I was short, fat and slow. So it was probably the best idea for me at the time. 01:04:49.600 --> 01:04:53.600 I think Chris was the opposite. Yeah. Chris was tiny. 01:04:53.600 --> 01:04:56.600 Chris was a little twig. 01:04:56.600 --> 01:05:03.600 I never really changed. So I guess I'm not short as much anymore, but I'll keep the rest of it. 01:05:03.600 --> 01:05:09.600 There you go. Yeah. Chris played soccer freshman year with us. 01:05:09.600 --> 01:05:13.600 And Chris hated it. It took all time. Took it really easy. 01:05:13.600 --> 01:05:15.600 You guys took it. See, that's what people are like. 01:05:15.600 --> 01:05:20.600 It's hard to have fun, but there are some people that got angry if you did stuff wrong. 01:05:20.600 --> 01:05:23.600 And that's where I was like, I want a good game. 01:05:23.600 --> 01:05:33.600 So it's like, I want you to be capable. But like if people are yelling at me for like not going well enough, it's like, I don't really care that much anymore. 01:05:33.600 --> 01:05:36.600 I get that completely. 01:05:36.600 --> 01:05:40.600 I think it was a whole like moving to a new school kind of thing too, right? 01:05:40.600 --> 01:05:43.600 Like I didn't know anyone, but were yelling at me. 01:05:43.600 --> 01:05:46.600 And I was a dick to Chris when he moved over to Lakeland. 01:05:46.600 --> 01:05:52.600 I was going to say, I'm sorry, Chris, because we all made fun of you for following Ryan. So sorry. 01:05:52.600 --> 01:05:54.600 Yeah. Not wrong, though. 01:05:54.600 --> 01:05:59.600 He followed me all the way to Lakeland. And then I told him, you need to make your own friends. 01:05:59.600 --> 01:06:05.600 And just did not. Yeah. I was not a part of introducing him to people at all. 01:06:05.600 --> 01:06:11.600 You took a guppy along with you and then just threw him to the sharks, man. 01:06:11.600 --> 01:06:18.600 He came out well. OK. He made friends. He made the same friends that I had anyways. 01:06:18.600 --> 01:06:22.600 There was like a certain amount of people to make friends with. 01:06:22.600 --> 01:06:26.600 Yeah. In a class of not many. 01:06:26.600 --> 01:06:31.600 Yeah, that's true. My wife graduated with 36. So she's got you beat. 01:06:31.600 --> 01:06:35.600 And I graduated with 250 something, I think. 01:06:35.600 --> 01:06:37.600 And even that's kind of small compared to some other people. 01:06:37.600 --> 01:06:41.600 Yeah, no, that's tiny compared to like some places in Cincinnati or Indy, for that matter. 01:06:41.600 --> 01:06:49.600 I was curious if you could kind of talk a little bit about how you viewed the Bible growing up versus how you view the Bible now. 01:06:49.600 --> 01:06:53.600 Because you've talked a little bit about your upbringing and you've talked a little bit now. 01:06:53.600 --> 01:06:59.600 And you seem to still have a lot of reverence to the Bible, much more than I think Ryan and I have. 01:06:59.600 --> 01:07:04.600 I was curious to kind of talk about differences in the similarities that you've kept. 01:07:04.600 --> 01:07:13.600 That's a good question. So for me, growing up, I mean, there is a reverence for the Bible, but I don't really remember ever studying it. 01:07:13.600 --> 01:07:18.600 I didn't go to a school that made me study it. So I didn't when I was growing up, for the most part. 01:07:18.600 --> 01:07:20.600 I hit more when I went to college. 01:07:20.600 --> 01:07:36.600 I really appreciate my college because I went through an Old Testament and a New Testament several years of both of those classes that made sure I actually knew the story of the Bible, like the overarching narrative of it. 01:07:36.600 --> 01:07:42.600 Like I knew most of the stories within it and I knew most of what people will pull from. 01:07:42.600 --> 01:07:48.600 I learned so many different things about judges and all these other places that were just never talked about. 01:07:48.600 --> 01:07:59.600 And I found for me now, looking at the Bible, I think there is a lot of beauty within its pages, but there is a lot of other things too. 01:07:59.600 --> 01:08:08.600 You can look at the Old Testament and see all of the different pages in which God asked for destruction upon peoples that were not his chosen people. 01:08:08.600 --> 01:08:20.600 And that feels awful to see. But with my education, I also learned that in every single time where an outsider was trying to pursue God, he worked with them. 01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:30.600 He incorporated them into his people. He incorporated them into his promise and many times into the line of his eventual son or so on. 01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:40.600 And so realizing that we maybe aren't getting the other stories because they aren't a part of the narrative that the Israelites wanted to tell. 01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:55.600 The Israelites wanted to show that they were a strong people and a conquering people and they were using the same sorts of characteristics that the other cultures did in that time, which I don't necessarily think that God wanted per se either. 01:08:55.600 --> 01:09:02.600 But I also believe that he brought in Rahab, he brought in Naomi and Ruth. 01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:10.600 He brought in so many different characters that would never have been a part of his promise to eventually be in the line of Jesus in the long term. 01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:26.600 And so you can't take the Bible and just look at the parts that are fun to see and all of the interesting stories or just knowing that Jesus walked on water and fed many people once with so little food. 01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:30.600 You need to look at everything else to understand the story of the people who wrote it. 01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:44.600 You need to realize that David more than likely absolutely did rape Bathsheba and all of these terrible things and recognizing that David was not a good person a lot of his life. 01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:52.600 But also recognizing that there was still a God still pursued David and David still somewhat pursued God until the end. 01:09:52.600 --> 01:09:56.600 He didn't sleep with that young woman that they tried to put next to him. 01:09:56.600 --> 01:10:00.600 So that's a good sign, but it's progress. 01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:19.600 Now, I to me, looking at the Bible, I see it as a place that I can pull some really interesting stories and some really interesting things and try to understand the peoples of time that were writing them and all these kind of things and recognize that there is always nuance to what we are teaching. 01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:27.600 I don't think I think we need to take a better, more centralized view of the Bible than the hyper conservative. 01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:29.600 Everything is literal and the hyper liberal. 01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:35.600 Everything is not possibly literal or that everything can be bent to our desires. 01:10:35.600 --> 01:10:46.600 I think we need to let it inform where it feels informed and let in my opinion, like God lead you to that information rather than try to find it myself. 01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:50.600 Do you do you do any teaching like you volunteer occasion? 01:10:50.600 --> 01:10:58.600 I will. I'll do like I'll sub in for when my wife is sick or she has to be doing something else. 01:10:58.600 --> 01:11:04.600 But a lot of my discussions with the kids tend to be a little more personal than like absolute teachings. 01:11:04.600 --> 01:11:13.600 And for the most part, my wife and I are very intentional in keeping our personal opinions out of the teaching itself. 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:24.600 So like I would never espouse to our students that old Earth creationism is the only way that it could possibly be because I don't necessarily want to alienate anybody. 01:11:24.600 --> 01:11:33.600 I don't want to have a theological discussion with somebody who is not as educated as I am because I don't want to influence them in a way that isn't necessary. 01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:42.600 I'd rather them have the beliefs they have and eventually grow to mature in them or maybe find something different or whatever else than espouse something I think is right. 01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:45.600 When I could very, very easily be wrong. 01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:56.600 Interesting. How do you so if you're going sitting down and or you open your Bible to have a personal study, what is that? 01:11:56.600 --> 01:11:58.600 What does that look like to you? Like how does it feel? 01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:10.600 A lot of times when I'm opening up the Bible, I'm looking to find some passage I found meeting in previously or whatever else like for me, a really important passage falls more. 01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:13.600 My practice probably falls more under meditation than anything else. 01:12:13.600 --> 01:12:19.600 But it's the Shema in Deuteronomy. In fact, I have Shema tattooed on my forearm. 01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:29.600 And so it's the same repetition of that over and over again is a very nice way to clear my head, but also kind of recenter a little bit. 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:42.600 And I take comfort in the fact that this has been a tradition for many, many centuries and millennia at this point for people to recite this over and over and over and over again. 01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:48.600 And I find comfort in taking part of that, just like I think I find comfort in reading a rosary or praying a rosary. 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:50.600 I don't, but I feel like I would. 01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:53.600 Do you want to explain what the Shema is? 01:12:53.600 --> 01:12:59.600 Yeah, the way I tend to explain it is that it's the John 3.16 of the Jews. 01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:01.600 Sure. 01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:07.600 But it's the listener Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, love the Lord your God with all your... 01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:10.600 I forget. It's different technically in the Old Testament than this. 01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:11.600 Right. 01:13:11.600 --> 01:13:14.600 We usually say it. And I say it in Hebrew more often than I say it in English. 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:18.600 Shema Yisrael Adonai Elohenu Adonai Yachad. 01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:31.600 It's the first line of it, but I want it. We did like the first several verses, but I don't want to offend anybody with my white tongue and bad pronunciation. 01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:34.600 Yeah, geez, assimilating another culture. 01:13:34.600 --> 01:13:35.600 Unbelievable. 01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:38.600 Right? I know. How dare I. 01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:50.600 But I love the Shema because it feels like a meditation, honestly. It feels like I can recenter a lot better under that than I would under other things. 01:13:50.600 --> 01:13:52.600 There's better options. 01:13:52.600 --> 01:14:00.600 Yeah. One thing that I took away that I really liked I haven't done forever because it involves a labyrinth. 01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:01.600 Okay. 01:14:01.600 --> 01:14:04.600 Have you heard about walking the labyrinth? 01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:06.600 No. 01:14:06.600 --> 01:14:09.600 So my school had one. 01:14:09.600 --> 01:14:15.600 Man, if I'm going to talk about this, we're going to have to include an image, Chris, or something, which I'll find. 01:14:15.600 --> 01:14:20.600 I'll actually post it in the general chat in this Discord, too. 01:14:20.600 --> 01:14:27.600 But it was so there's a difference between I think people have a misunderstanding of what a labyrinth is versus a maze. 01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:30.600 So mazes have dead ends. Labyrinths do not. 01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:37.600 Besides it leading to like the center. So it would be like this big circle almost with a path going through it. 01:14:37.600 --> 01:14:41.600 But basically it's one singular path that you walk. 01:14:41.600 --> 01:14:45.600 And basically people would pray or meditate and you would walk through this. 01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:49.600 So your body knows what it's doing and you're supposed to kind of go into a meditative state. 01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:59.600 And as you go closer to the center, you're supposed to like visualize almost that you're getting closer to God in a sense where like you're shedding everything that's going on in your life. 01:14:59.600 --> 01:15:02.600 Basically, and trying to become one with God. 01:15:02.600 --> 01:15:04.600 And as you get closer to the center, you're getting closer and closer. 01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:09.600 And then you spend time there in the center and then you walk back out the same way you came in. 01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:13.600 And this was the practice that I really enjoyed. 01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:19.600 We had this design outside, like on concrete, like they put it in the middle of like trees and stuff. 01:15:19.600 --> 01:15:24.600 And in my spiritual formation class each morning, we'd go and walk the labyrinth before class. 01:15:24.600 --> 01:15:27.600 And I would still do that like outside of that class. 01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:31.600 But now I like that is a very specific thing that you need in order to practice. 01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:36.600 And those are not easily found. 01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:37.600 No, not really. 01:15:37.600 --> 01:15:43.600 Like there's something about like since it's only one path, you don't have to think about it, but you get to like move through it. 01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:45.600 And you're like making this whole journey. 01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:49.600 It's basically the idea of pilgrimage in a small form factor. 01:15:49.600 --> 01:15:50.600 I really like that. 01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:51.600 That's really cool. 01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:51.600 Me too. 01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:54.600 But I have not been able to do it in so long. 01:15:54.600 --> 01:15:55.600 It was so fun. 01:15:55.600 --> 01:16:00.600 Chris, I think I already told you about that when I was like going to school. 01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:03.600 There's one actually just down the street for me. 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:05.600 I've walked it like half a dozen times. 01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:06.600 Isn't it nice? 01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:07.600 There's something about it. 01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:10.600 I guess you have to be in the mindset for it, though. 01:16:10.600 --> 01:16:12.600 You definitely have to be in a mindset for it. 01:16:12.600 --> 01:16:18.600 I think it's difficult the first couple of times to like understand what you're doing. 01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:19.600 Oh, yeah. 01:16:19.600 --> 01:16:20.600 It takes practice. 01:16:20.600 --> 01:16:23.600 Yeah, it feels awkward. 01:16:23.600 --> 01:16:29.600 I've never been like a really spiritual person, like spiritual practices. 01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:30.600 There's definitely a nice practice. 01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:31.600 I enjoyed it. 01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:37.600 Nate, if you ever find a labyrinth around you, they're usually in big cathedrals most of the time. 01:16:37.600 --> 01:16:39.600 I'm sure there's one. 01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:41.600 Try to find one. 01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:42.600 Do it. 01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:45.600 Look up some writings people have written about it and different stuff. 01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:52.600 And there were like almost like meditations that you would go through just to get into this space. 01:16:52.600 --> 01:16:54.600 It was very... 01:16:54.600 --> 01:16:58.600 It's probably the most peaceful I've felt was walking in a labyrinth. 01:16:58.600 --> 01:16:59.600 Gotcha. 01:16:59.600 --> 01:17:00.600 I'll have to keep that in mind. 01:17:00.600 --> 01:17:01.600 That sounds really cool. 01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:02.600 I did find... 01:17:02.600 --> 01:17:09.600 I pulled out my Bible for Deuteronomy 6.4 if you want me to actually read it rather than try to bring it from memory. 01:17:09.600 --> 01:17:10.600 Sure. 01:17:10.600 --> 01:17:37.600 The reason why I have Shema on my forearm, it's technically right below my elbow, is because the word for hand is technically your whole family. 01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:47.600 And so I wanted to bind it on my hand, but at the same time make it so that I could hide it under a sleeve if I needed to. 01:17:47.600 --> 01:17:50.600 And so that's where I got it tattooed. 01:17:50.600 --> 01:17:59.600 And part of that too is when I got it tattooed, I wanted to be a counselor, but also just in general practice, the word Shema just means... 01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:01.600 It's the command form of listen. 01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:05.600 And so it's a reminder to listen. 01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:11.600 And I wrote it towards myself rather than towards other people because most people can't read Hebrew anyway. 01:18:11.600 --> 01:18:15.600 And so it's nice to be able to have that reminder. 01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:19.600 In your Hebrew class, did you hear where the word Jehovah came from? 01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:20.600 I love that. 01:18:20.600 --> 01:18:24.600 It's one of my favorite facts to tell people. 01:18:24.600 --> 01:18:29.600 Jehovah is kind of made up. 01:18:29.600 --> 01:18:36.600 So in Hebrew, the characters are only consonants. 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:43.600 And so I think to make it easier on us, I don't think they had vowel points in the past, but I think that was a later addition. 01:18:43.600 --> 01:18:45.600 Master Reads added it later on. 01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:46.600 Right. 01:18:46.600 --> 01:18:53.600 So now when you're learning Hebrew, they put different dots and notations to say which vowels go in between each consonant. 01:18:53.600 --> 01:19:01.600 And in the Bible, what we translate, I believe as I am or like whatever the Lord's name, they took that. 01:19:01.600 --> 01:19:10.600 And then the word Adonai, which is just based on Lord, which I think some people know like Adonai, but it could be used for just like a normal Lord, I guess a title. 01:19:10.600 --> 01:19:17.600 But they took the vowel points from Adonai, put it on God's name, and it says Jehovah. 01:19:17.600 --> 01:19:18.600 Did I get that right? 01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:24.600 Yes, the intention being so that you don't say the Lord's name in vain. 01:19:24.600 --> 01:19:30.600 You say Adonai when you're reading over it rather than whatever the actual tetragrammaton is. 01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:35.600 Sorry, the four consonants that make up God's name. 01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:40.600 So when they're reading, they aren't potentially saying his name in vain. 01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:44.600 And so, yes, it would be pronounced similar to Jehovah. 01:19:44.600 --> 01:19:48.600 And so my favorite line is, is it days of Elijah? 01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:53.600 My Hebrew teacher likes to sing instead of there's no God like Jehovah. 01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:58.600 He likes to sing there's no God named Jehovah over and over and over and over again. 01:19:58.600 --> 01:20:01.600 Hilarious. Great joke. 01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:02.600 Perfect. 01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:05.600 So now everyone knows where Jehovah came from. 01:20:05.600 --> 01:20:12.600 Yeah, because like our best guess, like since I don't care that much and a lot of people don't care that much anymore. 01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:14.600 Like we're saying Yahweh, Yahweh. 01:20:14.600 --> 01:20:19.600 Right. Those are the same characters that tetragrammaton or whatever it's called. 01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:28.600 Those are the same four characters that also can be pronounced Jehovah because for some reason the Y and the J's are like almost the same in Hebrew. 01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:29.600 I don't get it. 01:20:29.600 --> 01:20:31.600 Well, it would be like Jehovah. 01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:32.600 Yeah, Jehovah. 01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:37.600 But we like to translate it with J's like they didn't really have J's. 01:20:37.600 --> 01:20:43.600 I don't think in there it's like Jesus would be now would be similar to Josh. 01:20:43.600 --> 01:20:47.600 Yeah, I hated reading Hebrew with all the gutterals. 01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:48.600 So fun. 01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:49.600 I think it's fun. 01:20:49.600 --> 01:20:55.600 It's it's not great when you're congested, but I would imagine. 01:20:55.600 --> 01:21:03.600 Yeah, our closest approximation is Yahweh when we don't actually know the true way it would have been pronounced. 01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:10.600 Right. Because if it was oral tradition and they weren't willing to say God's name, what are you going to do? 01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:16.600 Did you know that the reason why we call bears bears is because of a very similar thing? 01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:17.600 No. 01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:27.600 The I believe it's from it's a Germanic origin, but we bear translate to something similar to like I forget what it is. 01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:37.600 But the true name of bear they wouldn't say because saying it would call it in their opinion and their like beliefs that so similar as to like you must not be named in Harry Potter. 01:21:37.600 --> 01:21:44.600 Yeah, no, the you know, the episode of SpongeBob with the sea bear and they have the circles and stuff. 01:21:44.600 --> 01:21:45.600 It's it's right. 01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:46.600 It's the same thing. 01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:48.600 I sick episode. 01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:49.600 All right. 01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:52.600 Is there anything else that you have, Chris? 01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:56.600 I'm trying to think if there's anything else that I had thought of something earlier, but it's gone from my mind. 01:21:56.600 --> 01:21:59.600 I mean, I can go on for a long time. 01:21:59.600 --> 01:22:01.600 But 10 is my cut off. 01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:04.600 Once we hit that, it's just like I done. 01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:07.600 I think that's fantastic. 01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:08.600 Really glad you reached out, Nate. 01:22:08.600 --> 01:22:15.600 Yeah, I was I was interested because I saw a post from Ryan talking about it. 01:22:15.600 --> 01:22:17.600 I was like, huh, I'll listen to it. 01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:20.600 I mean, I listen to podcasts forever. 01:22:20.600 --> 01:22:22.600 Like, do you know the podcast lore? 01:22:22.600 --> 01:22:26.600 I've been listening to it since he was on his ninth episode. 01:22:26.600 --> 01:22:34.600 I found it on accident because I was looking for a podcast about folklore and he was on his ninth episode when I started listening to it. 01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:41.600 I haven't really kept up with it, but he's passed, I think, 200 at this point and had an Amazon TV show like. 01:22:41.600 --> 01:22:43.600 Yeah, he did pretty well. 01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:44.600 Manky, right? 01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:45.600 Yep. 01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:52.600 I've been listening to podcasts for a very long time at this point, well over a year. 01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:53.600 Listen to his other show. 01:22:53.600 --> 01:22:54.600 So many of them. 01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:55.600 But no, not really. 01:22:55.600 --> 01:22:57.600 I haven't listened to many of them a long time. 01:22:57.600 --> 01:23:01.600 That wasn't a fair description. 01:23:01.600 --> 01:23:06.600 But now I haven't really listened to any of Aaron Manky stuff for a while just because I got I don't know. 01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:10.600 I needed something lighter sometimes at this point. 01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:14.600 I drive so much from my job that I just listen to podcasts the whole time. 01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:18.600 So you guys have entered my rotation. 01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:19.600 Awesome. 01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:21.600 We appreciate that. 01:23:21.600 --> 01:23:26.600 Um, is there any closing words you want to say? 01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:27.600 I don't know. 01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:29.600 I don't do anything. 01:23:29.600 --> 01:23:30.600 Cool, cool, cool. 01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:34.600 You didn't ask me what my bright spot was, but that's OK. 01:23:34.600 --> 01:23:35.600 Whatever. 01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:36.600 That's true. 01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:39.600 We haven't been doing bright spots with the people we bring on. 01:23:39.600 --> 01:23:40.600 We don't do that. 01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:41.600 We should mix that in more. 01:23:41.600 --> 01:23:43.600 People tend to like it. 01:23:43.600 --> 01:23:46.600 It's a nice way to get to know your hosts. 01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:47.600 Just saying. 01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:51.600 I didn't know you had cats, but now I know you like to carry them in backpacks. 01:23:51.600 --> 01:23:52.600 Yep. 01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:56.600 You can you can say your bright spot to end it off if you want. 01:23:56.600 --> 01:23:59.600 It's going to take me a bit to get to the bright aspect of it. 01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:03.600 So my grandmother passed away last Sunday or Sunday before last. 01:24:03.600 --> 01:24:04.600 I'm sorry. 01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:05.600 I appreciate it. 01:24:05.600 --> 01:24:09.600 She has been dealing with pancreatic cancer for over three years now. 01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:14.600 And so there is a bright spot in that she is no longer having to deal with that. 01:24:14.600 --> 01:24:17.600 And I'm happy for that. 01:24:17.600 --> 01:24:20.600 Sorry to bring that to a damper, but no, it's OK. 01:24:20.600 --> 01:24:26.600 My grandpa passed away last year from cancer as well. 01:24:26.600 --> 01:24:29.600 So I it's a it's a conflicting time. 01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:31.600 Like cancer is a bit. 01:24:31.600 --> 01:24:32.600 Yeah. 01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:37.600 Oh, I'm also that was the same feelings I had when he passed. 01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:41.600 We got a lot more years than we should have had, which I'm very appreciative of. 01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:43.600 Same with my grandmother. 01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:47.600 She went into remission at one point, but then it came back. 01:24:47.600 --> 01:24:51.600 And when it comes back, that means it's not going to go away this time usually. 01:24:51.600 --> 01:24:55.600 And so we we were given a year at the as the longest. 01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:59.600 And she went just a little bit longer than that. 01:24:59.600 --> 01:25:05.600 But yeah, most of the time with pancreatic cancer, you don't live very long after diagnosis. 01:25:05.600 --> 01:25:07.600 So I'm very blessed. 01:25:07.600 --> 01:25:11.600 Yeah, I'm glad you got those experiences then at the end there. 01:25:11.600 --> 01:25:14.600 Thank you. I appreciate it. 01:25:14.600 --> 01:25:19.600 Well, thanks for coming on our show and having a great discussion with us. 01:25:19.600 --> 01:25:25.600 Honestly, we honestly didn't really know what to expect going into this because we haven't really talked to you in a while. 01:25:25.600 --> 01:25:29.600 But this was a great conversation. It was awesome getting to catch up with you. 01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:31.600 So thanks very much for coming on. 01:25:31.600 --> 01:25:33.600 Thank you. Thanks for having me. A lot of fun. 01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:35.600 Yeah, really appreciate it. 01:25:35.600 --> 01:25:37.600 I'm glad you reached out. 01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:39.600 Also enjoyed the conversation a lot. 01:25:39.600 --> 01:25:41.600 And maybe we'll see more of you later. 01:25:41.600 --> 01:25:43.600 A little teaser there until next time. 01:25:43.600 --> 01:25:49.600 This is Paul Wintour's question. 01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:53.600 Goodbye and we love you. 01:25:53.600 --> 01:25:56.600 Well, it's definitely not a Bible podcast anymore. 01:25:56.600 --> 01:26:01.600 I've been saying Hail Satan at the end of all of them and Chris edits them out. 01:26:01.600 --> 01:26:05.600 I totally edit them out. 01:26:31.600 --> 01:26:33.600 Thanks for watching. 01:27:01.600 --> 01:27:03.660 you 01:27:31.600 --> 01:27:34.660 you 01:28:01.600 --> 01:28:04.660 you 01:28:31.600 --> 01:28:34.660 you 01:29:01.600 --> 01:29:04.660 you 01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:34.660 you 01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:04.660 you 01:30:31.600 --> 01:30:34.660 you 01:31:01.600 --> 01:31:04.660 you 01:31:31.600 --> 01:31:34.660 you 01:32:01.600 --> 01:32:04.660 you 01:32:31.600 --> 01:32:34.660 you 01:33:01.600 --> 01:33:03.660 you 01:33:31.600 --> 01:33:34.660 you 01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:03.660 you 01:34:31.600 --> 01:34:33.660 you 01:35:01.600 --> 01:35:03.660 you 01:35:31.600 --> 01:35:33.660 you 01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:03.660 you 01:36:31.600 --> 01:36:33.660 you 01:37:01.600 --> 01:37:03.660 you 01:37:31.600 --> 01:37:33.660 you 01:38:01.600 --> 01:38:03.660 you 01:38:31.600 --> 01:38:33.660 you 01:39:01.600 --> 01:39:03.660 you 01:39:31.600 --> 01:39:33.660 you 01:40:01.600 --> 01:40:03.660 you 01:40:31.600 --> 01:40:33.660 you 01:41:01.600 --> 01:41:03.660 you 01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:33.660 you 01:42:01.600 --> 01:42:03.660 you 01:42:31.600 --> 01:42:33.660 you