WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.040 Welcome to Hallway Transgressions, I'm Chris. I'm Ryan. 00:03.800 --> 00:10.880 We are two Christian school alumni who aim to discuss Christian concepts and deconstruct them through a postmodern lens. Hey Ryan, 00:10.880 --> 00:12.200 what's your bright spot? 00:12.200 --> 00:14.680 Well, not to steal anyone's thunder, 00:14.680 --> 00:18.600 but I think my bright spot is that a new game has 00:18.960 --> 00:24.000 recently been released over the past weekend, that game being Splatoon 3. 00:24.000 --> 00:28.980 This is kind of my like first time actually delving into I played a little bit of Splatoon 2, 00:28.980 --> 00:35.280 but didn't play much because I didn't like the motion controls and just never really got to trying to play it in docked mode. 00:35.280 --> 00:39.160 I always played my Switch in handheld and it didn't feel right. So I didn't play it much, 00:39.160 --> 00:46.120 but now I've been getting into Splatoon 3 as you know, and it's a lot of fun despite what some reviewers may say. 00:46.120 --> 00:50.600 It's a good game. How about you? What's your bright spot Chris? 00:51.080 --> 00:54.180 I just really throw in that Ars Technica guy to the bus. 00:54.180 --> 00:56.180 Look, look. 00:56.180 --> 01:01.180 Mine is also Splatoon 3. I played the first one when I was in Japan. 01:01.180 --> 01:08.180 I went to the Google headquarters there and they had a little room where they were playing Splatoon and then let me play a couple matches with them and I had a blast. 01:08.180 --> 01:12.180 But I didn't have a Wii U, unfortunately, so I couldn't play when I got back. 01:12.180 --> 01:21.180 But I played Splatoon 2 a little bit when it launched, but that game wasn't super supported or the lifespan of the game wasn't very good. 01:21.180 --> 01:28.180 And it kind of got boring towards the end. But Splatoon 3, I'm going to tell you, it just feels like a really polished version of the second game. 01:28.180 --> 01:31.180 It feels really good and I'm having a blast with it. 01:32.180 --> 01:37.180 Yeah, and despite what Chris plays, there's a lot of modes in it. Like there's so much to do in it. There's so much content. 01:37.180 --> 01:46.180 Chris decides to ignore those, but I have been trying out all the stuff and it's all pretty fun, except for one specific game mode, which absolutely sucks. 01:46.180 --> 01:52.180 I will be spending no time in it, but the rest of it really fun. 01:52.180 --> 02:02.180 Look, I'm here to play one thing and one thing only, and that's Turf War. And it's just to prepare for the Splatfest coming up this next week. 02:02.180 --> 02:09.180 So I thought I was to prepare for our future professional Splatoon career. 02:10.180 --> 02:15.180 Our competitive career in Splatoon 3. That's what we're practicing for, right? 02:15.180 --> 02:18.180 They better watch out because we're going to be the champions. 02:18.180 --> 02:28.180 So today we have the pleasure of having Becca back on our podcast to talk to her a little bit about her social media career. 02:28.180 --> 02:38.180 She's kind of been making a brand of herself on TikTok, mainly that is of her deconstruction of her beliefs that she grew up with. 02:38.180 --> 02:48.180 And there's actually been a lot of backlash in the comments, almost bullying from a side of these conversations. 02:48.180 --> 03:02.180 And it's just kind of funny that it's mostly coming from current Christians and them kind of talking to her, invalidating her experience, or just flat out disrespecting and insulting her. 03:02.180 --> 03:13.180 And we find it funny that it would be the Christians that do that, like you would expect someone within this religion of love and mercy and love. 03:13.180 --> 03:22.180 Like it's mainly like loving people, like love God, love others. They're the ones that are like really just bashing on her. What do you think about it? 03:22.180 --> 03:35.180 Yeah, I mean, after we recorded our first podcast, she had shown us some of the comments on her TikTok and I was just like, you have to come back on the podcast and like share these because they're just like, and some of them are just incredible. 03:35.180 --> 03:40.180 I think there was the normal amount of bullying. So like normal amount of bullying for TikTok. 03:40.180 --> 03:51.180 But I was the things I were surprised about were how many people were on her page, which is purely an ex evangelical page, which is kind of like a brand of content right now. 03:51.180 --> 04:02.180 And I was surprised at how many of current Christians were on there, like commenting that it was just the church she went to, or like what you said earlier, invalidating her experience. 04:02.180 --> 04:16.180 And like it was interesting to me to think about like, why were they there in the first place and what compelled them to say that it wasn't, where it wasn't just like, you know, scroll and move by because ex evangelical is not my brand of content. 04:16.180 --> 04:21.180 But it's like kind of not even reaching out, though, because it was just like, you should just try a different church. 04:21.180 --> 04:23.180 It was like, yeah, she's probably thought about that already. 04:23.180 --> 04:29.180 And it obviously didn't work out as like instead of asking questions about what went wrong or what happened, it was just like, it's fine. 04:29.180 --> 04:36.180 You're fine. And then the other brand of comments that were interesting to me were just the ones that were like, you weren't saved at all. 04:36.180 --> 04:51.180 And I mentioned it in this episode a little bit where I'm talking about how like evangelicalism can't seem to face the mirror of itself and like understand that when it fails, it needs to figure out why it fails at a conversion. 04:51.180 --> 05:01.180 And instead, they just kind of take this concept of this person was never saved to begin with, because how could someone possibly walk away from God's love in quotes? 05:01.180 --> 05:06.180 And it's just it's a concept I've seen a lot growing up in in this religion. 05:06.180 --> 05:12.180 And it's something that I do find really interesting and kind of want to explore more in a later episode. 05:12.180 --> 05:24.180 Yeah. And just to be clear, since we have read some of those comments and I know kind of what to expect, we're not trying to generalize all Christians by pointing out that Christians are saying these things. 05:24.180 --> 05:39.180 That doesn't mean that we're attacking you specifically or anything like that. We just thought it was surprising or just interesting in general to see the amount of comments and everything from Christians on that platform. 05:39.180 --> 05:44.180 So don't try to defend yourself or you're not that way. You wouldn't do that kind of stuff. 05:44.180 --> 05:51.180 We don't care. We understand that's not everyone, but there are those out there and that does have an impact. 05:51.180 --> 05:57.180 Yeah, yeah, we we wanted to bring up some of them because they were entertaining and how they were presented. 05:57.180 --> 06:02.180 We brought up a couple just because of the concepts behind them, like I was talking about before. 06:02.180 --> 06:14.180 But yeah, I mean, we're not trying to specifically talk or specifically call out any specific person or just like a generalization, but just kind of like this is probably not great behavior to be in. 06:14.180 --> 06:28.180 I mean, it doesn't feel good to get bullied and it sure doesn't feel good to have spent most of your life in church and working and volunteering for a church and then turning away from that to try to find because it was toxic to you. 06:28.180 --> 06:32.180 And then a bunch of people comment on your post that you were never a Christian in the first place. 06:32.180 --> 06:36.180 Like that doesn't feel good. And it's not the nicest thing to say. 06:36.180 --> 06:44.180 No, and there's literally just blatant bullying like those the blatant bullying isn't as common. It didn't seem like. 06:44.180 --> 06:51.180 But those were still in there like name calling, just being just brutal. 06:51.180 --> 07:04.180 The blatant bullying that surprised me the most was it mostly seemed to have come from people that she personally knew while she was in the church and surrounding our adjacent areas around church. 07:04.180 --> 07:20.180 I like people that she personally knew for like a long time even have kind of like become more zealous almost in a way of like defending their truth and start to lash out and in a way that causes a lot of harm to people. 07:20.180 --> 07:22.180 That's what surprised me the most, I think. 07:22.180 --> 07:26.180 Yeah. So anyways, bullying is not a good coping mechanism. 07:26.180 --> 07:33.180 Please find another way to soothe your frustrations. 07:33.180 --> 07:40.180 There are other ways you don't have to put it out there on social media to try to harm someone else. Unnecessary. 07:40.180 --> 07:42.180 That's a good way to put it. 07:42.180 --> 07:46.180 And with that, we would like to go right into this episode. 07:46.180 --> 07:49.180 Hey everyone, welcome to another special episode. 07:49.180 --> 07:54.180 We have back our favorite and highly requested guest to return, Becca. 07:54.180 --> 07:56.180 Who requested me? 07:56.180 --> 07:59.180 Everyone. All ten listeners. 07:59.180 --> 08:03.180 Well, here I am. 08:03.180 --> 08:28.180 Oh, Becca, last time we talked a little bit off the record about your social media presence and the fact that when you started using it in a way to be more accepting and critical or be more accepting of people, but more critical of the church, you started to get a flood of, I wouldn't say hate mail, but unkind words. 08:28.180 --> 08:50.180 Yeah, which like before because so I started a TikTok account like shortly after our interview, just because I realized that like kind of I have a very wealth of like large wealth of knowledge of just experience growing up Christian that I could pull from and just like make content and even if nobody else watched it, it was kind of like therapeutic for me in a way. 08:50.180 --> 08:58.180 And so before I would just like post things on Instagram that were controversial and just disagreeing with things. 08:58.180 --> 09:07.180 And so the people that were responding were like people I grew up with or people that I had run like cross paths with in the church at some point or another. 09:07.180 --> 09:10.180 And so there was like some extent of that. 09:10.180 --> 09:17.180 Like there was one guy in particular that would bully me and he bullies other people on social media who went to like winning graduated from it. 09:17.180 --> 09:33.180 But then I started this TikTok account and I had one TikTok that blew up and it's at like 150,000 views right now and I was pretty much expecting no one to see it and that post led to just a flood of like super hateful comments. 09:33.180 --> 09:58.180 Super just mean comments, people assuming a lot about me and yeah, which has led to like more comments and stuff on my other TikToks that I make because I just make I make content about different things that happened to me as someone that was raised, you know, from birth to now as Christian and just the different ways that affected my life and the different things that like horrible behaviors at the church do. 09:58.180 --> 10:00.180 Cool. What's one of your favorite TikToks? 10:00.180 --> 10:08.180 I liked the one where I talked about our high school assigning an essay topic where we had to tell someone about Jesus. 10:08.180 --> 10:26.180 Because that one it was like I completely forgot that that was a home assignment and then as I just like sat down and was trying to brainstorm things I was like somewhere inside of me just like unlocked and I remember having to just have like a really awkward conversation with my older brother because he was the only person I knew that was Christian. 10:26.180 --> 10:39.180 So I didn't even talk about that in the TikTok but just like I remember that memory of me just like texting my brother and I'm just imagine I was just like so what are your thoughts on Jesus? 10:39.180 --> 10:43.180 What do you think about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? 10:43.180 --> 10:46.180 What grade? How old were you? How old was he? 10:46.180 --> 10:52.180 I think that was like probably 10th or 11th grade. I feel like it was for the English teacher. 10:52.180 --> 10:57.180 I don't actually think it was for Bible class. I think it was the English teacher that assigned it. 10:57.180 --> 11:06.180 I'm trying not to name drop because I realized the last time I was on here I name dropped so much and I kind of felt bad. 11:06.180 --> 11:08.180 We know who you're talking about though. 11:08.180 --> 11:15.180 That's fine. You guys can know. I realized I name dropped the church that I worked for a whole bunch in the last episode and I felt bad. 11:15.180 --> 11:18.180 I put that in on purpose by the way. 11:18.180 --> 11:25.180 I think they deserved a little bit of falling out. 11:25.180 --> 11:30.180 Yeah. But yeah, I think it was like we had her every other year. 11:30.180 --> 11:36.180 So it was either 10th or 11th grade that I had her and my brother is nine and a half years older than me. 11:36.180 --> 11:42.180 So I was like 15 or 16 and he was like 24 or 25. 11:42.180 --> 11:44.180 That's so interesting. 11:44.180 --> 11:49.180 It's funny. I was having my brother sending me Richard Dawkins videos while I was in high school. 11:49.180 --> 12:01.180 Do you guys think, both of you, that having a sibling that was older and more mature that wasn't a Christian helped you your deconstruction or was it unrelated? 12:01.180 --> 12:07.180 It was completely unrelated for me. That wasn't like a driving force or factor at all. 12:07.180 --> 12:15.180 Mine had more to do with education and going through a Bible college, like Christian high school Bible college. 12:15.180 --> 12:24.180 That's where mine stemmed from. Me and my brother didn't really keep in touch a whole lot after I went to Anderson for Bible and religion. 12:24.180 --> 12:30.180 We kind of dropped off after he had his kid. He just was busy a lot and so it just didn't really happen at all. 12:30.180 --> 12:40.180 So it's only recently that we've been able to come together and talk and it's kind of crazy how many of the same realizations we've both had. 12:40.180 --> 12:49.180 It's honestly really weird how similar our thought processes are now having had a time span where we were not in contact with each other. 12:49.180 --> 12:56.180 But yeah, he wasn't really a big part of my deconstruction process or origins. 12:56.180 --> 13:07.180 I have the exact opposite answer. Ryan and I have talked about his brother a little bit and I'm actually really surprised to hear that deconstructions were unrelated 13:07.180 --> 13:13.180 because remember just like specific things you've mentioned where it's like, you've all like you both have had the same thoughts. 13:13.180 --> 13:18.180 So it's actually really surprising to hear that. Oh, it's it's really weird. 13:18.180 --> 13:28.180 Well, even just recently we've discussed just like where we are like philosophically and how similar we view the world and how we like cope with things. 13:28.180 --> 13:34.180 It's weird. Interesting. Okay, Becca, you can go now. Thank you for your permission. 13:34.180 --> 13:41.180 You have my permission. Granted, let the man give you permission before you speak. 13:41.180 --> 13:56.180 Just trying to follow the appropriate rules. Anyways, so I think that my brothers played a huge role in my deconstruction process just because I watched mainly two of my brothers. 13:56.180 --> 14:03.180 Really, I have always been really close with them and like I text them, call them all the time. 14:03.180 --> 14:19.180 And so just as I've had questions come up in my life, having someone that I can text them questions and just get their opinion on it, that someone that's not involved in the church, that's an outside perspective, has been super beneficial, I think, for me just in that whole process. 14:19.180 --> 14:26.180 And we just had our first like family vacation recently since I've like started doing deconstruction and all that stuff. 14:26.180 --> 14:35.180 And it was really interesting just some of the conversations we had. We just talked about, we had very small conversations just about some like spiritual things. 14:35.180 --> 14:46.180 I think my siblings are still spiritual in some way, but not Christian. So it was interesting like having some of those conversations because we've never really had those at family functions. 14:46.180 --> 15:00.180 And it was interesting, like my dad still set a blessing over our meals and stuff. And I just remember like not knowing what to do with myself. I was like, it was the first time I was confronted with like not knowing self during a prayer. 15:00.180 --> 15:15.180 And I just like stared at the floor and just like didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. But yeah, it was weird. I was telling my brother too that I hadn't, we were talking about the realization that like, I don't know where I stand on things yet, but I did have this 15:15.180 --> 15:25.180 this thought of the realization. Like if I don't believe in God, then I'm alone in my head for the first time in years. And that was a weird thing to wrap my brain around. 15:25.180 --> 15:29.180 Because like, I don't know, I grew up like thinking that God was like in my brain. 15:29.180 --> 15:31.180 Yeah, that makes sense. 15:31.180 --> 15:35.180 That's an interesting thought. Thinking about that right now. 15:35.180 --> 15:41.180 But it's really just a construct that you built in your brain anyway. So you've always been alone in your brain. 15:41.180 --> 15:42.180 That's sad. 15:42.180 --> 15:43.180 Is it though? 15:43.180 --> 15:47.180 But also, okay. 15:47.180 --> 15:51.180 I just think of like the Squidward alone, alone. 15:51.180 --> 16:09.180 For me though, the realization, like the becoming not spiritual, I guess, in a way, is almost comforting, because I'd always grown up of like God judging me of my every move and thought and like having the realization that he doesn't exist is almost like losing a prison guard in my 16:09.180 --> 16:13.180 that I've constructed in my own head. It's just almost like freeing that way. 16:13.180 --> 16:15.180 Yeah, I'd be in the same boat. 16:15.180 --> 16:31.180 See, and I think, like I have that side of things of like where the guilt of it, I'm happy that that's gone. But then there's also the side of it for me that was like, it was comforting that I was never alone in something that I was doing. And now it's like, all right, Becca, you got this. 16:31.180 --> 16:33.180 Best of luck. 16:33.180 --> 16:48.180 So before we get into I wanted to talk a little bit about the comments and the concepts behind them, but I wanted to go a little bit into specifically some of the topics that you created on your TikTok. 16:48.180 --> 16:58.180 I've actually a decent amount of these. I wouldn't call them like requested, but these were all topics that like I just, I didn't just come up with on my own. 16:58.180 --> 17:07.180 I've like talked with a lot of other female Christians, especially people or females that grew up Christian, I should say. 17:07.180 --> 17:12.180 And they're the ones that like helped me come up with these ideas that I've done. 17:12.180 --> 17:21.180 So it's a group effort on my TikTok. I told my one friend that if I ever get famous for it, she gets royalties because she's helped me a lot. 17:21.180 --> 17:31.180 I also like to include my dogs in them because I'm talking about like sometimes sad and serious things. I try to show a puppy to make people feel better. 17:31.180 --> 17:36.180 Well, it sure made me feel better watching through some of them. So I appreciate that. 17:36.180 --> 17:43.180 My first three aren't anything church related. The fourth one I posted is the first church related one I did. 17:43.180 --> 17:48.180 Okay. So one where most of your comments came from, right? 17:48.180 --> 17:52.180 Yeah, it is my fourth one, but it's also like pinned at the top. 17:52.180 --> 17:55.180 Also has so many views from the others. 17:55.180 --> 18:01.180 Yeah. 162.1 K is what it's at right now, which is a lot of people. 18:01.180 --> 18:07.180 When I was like starting to get all these views on it, I started looking at like the amount of people that were looking at it. 18:07.180 --> 18:15.180 And I was looking up at like how big football stadiums were. I was very overwhelmed by how many people were looking at it. 18:15.180 --> 18:23.180 Why do you think this one that's so big? What was the appeal you think of people wanting to watch it? 18:23.180 --> 18:29.180 I don't. My brain is like the TikTok algorithm because I used a trending sound. 18:29.180 --> 18:35.180 Because I mean, I did use a sound that is a song from a girl who left the church. 18:35.180 --> 18:43.180 She was a worship leader who left the church and then basically wrote her own version of a worship song about leaving. 18:43.180 --> 18:50.180 And then she also came out as bisexual when she left too and was shunned by a lot of people that she grew up with. 18:50.180 --> 18:59.180 But so I think the story itself is very relatable to people that grew up Christian and don't feel they fit that anymore or have and have left that. 18:59.180 --> 19:08.180 And so then I think I also just told a very relatable story because the TikTok that blew up is just me kind of explaining my journey of, you know, being raised Christian, 19:08.180 --> 19:16.180 going to Christian school, working at a church, doing all of the right things and just always kind of feeling like something didn't fit. 19:16.180 --> 19:28.180 And then deciding to leave and finally finding my voice in the world and being able to speak up and speak out about things that I truly do believe instead of feeling kind of like I'm boxed in. 19:28.180 --> 19:35.180 And so I think that both the song and the story that it told is what made it so relatable to a lot of people. 19:35.180 --> 19:43.180 Because I got a lot of really cool comments from people that were saying like very similar story or like I was a PK pastors kid. 19:43.180 --> 19:51.180 Like I did all of these things. I saved one, Ryan, for you because one of the comments I got was somebody from Anderson. 19:51.180 --> 20:00.180 They had gone to Anderson. Yeah, I don't know where it's at, but it was someone saying that they had like gone to Anderson University and went through kind of a similar story. 20:00.180 --> 20:06.180 But I think it was just relatable. I think there's not there's not a lot of us that come out of Christianity. 20:06.180 --> 20:11.180 I think with these insane stories like there are people that leave the church because of that. 20:11.180 --> 20:14.180 But I also think it's a slow realization for a lot of us. 20:14.180 --> 20:23.180 Like I think it's a lot of time unraveling stuff and coming to conclusions on your own and making that decision to finally leave. 20:23.180 --> 20:32.180 But yeah, I don't know why it blew up. It was so funny when I was making it. I was sitting on the floor of my boyfriend's game room while he played Call of Duty. 20:32.180 --> 20:43.180 And I was sitting there sobbing as I'm making it because it's like it's reliving my entire life and you know going through the fact that I no longer believe in what I've always believed. 20:43.180 --> 20:47.180 And so like it's it's hard. It sucks to turn your back on everything you've ever known. 20:47.180 --> 20:53.180 And so I was literally sobbing while I was putting it together because the song itself just made me cry. 20:53.180 --> 21:01.180 And I kept looking at him and saying, why am I crying over a TikTok? What is wrong with me? 21:01.180 --> 21:05.180 You're right though. Like it's really is just a story of your life. 21:05.180 --> 21:10.180 Like I think it's it's really well put together. The song is yeah, the song is a lot. 21:10.180 --> 21:20.180 I think just the turn that you have, you put the eye descent during your Roe v. Wade overturning protest at the courthouse. 21:20.180 --> 21:26.180 And just like you put on there that now you use your voice to help others or something like that. 21:26.180 --> 21:32.180 You know, I felt that too. I was like, wow, it's like a really powerful thing to kind of turn it around. 21:32.180 --> 21:46.180 I think there's just like something to be said about people that leave the church feel like their voices are silenced and to be able to finally talk about things we really care about is so freeing, especially like Roe v. Wade being overturned. 21:46.180 --> 21:50.180 Like I cried when that happened. It was heartbreaking for me. 21:50.180 --> 21:58.180 And I would never have been able to express that while I was working at a church, while I was involved at a church and especially working at the church. 21:58.180 --> 22:07.180 I don't think I would have been able to feel like I could share anything and I would just continue to suppress pieces of me that I really cared about and were important to me. 22:07.180 --> 22:12.180 So it was nice to finally be who I am. 22:12.180 --> 22:18.180 I would my one friend who I've been talking to about all this stuff, she said, it's nice to finally meet the real you. 22:18.180 --> 22:20.180 Damn. 22:20.180 --> 22:23.180 I'm just gonna make me cry. 22:23.180 --> 22:30.180 It is crazy to me though how many people saw it because I genuinely like my my tech talks that I had made had only gotten some views. 22:30.180 --> 22:36.180 And so I was expecting like 10 people that look at it and it was really more for myself than anything. 22:36.180 --> 22:39.180 And then all these people started commenting, like saying I was doing it for attention. 22:39.180 --> 22:44.180 And I'm like, I literally made this for myself. 22:44.180 --> 22:47.180 I don't know who you people are. 22:47.180 --> 22:55.180 You brought up an interesting point of that you didn't feel like if you were still in the church, you didn't feel like you could share this part of you. 22:55.180 --> 23:02.180 I mean, I assume that's not just specifically about Robi Wade, but other topics as well. 23:02.180 --> 23:11.180 Yeah, which I actually talked about this last night with my friend who was she went to the youth group while I was a youth leader there. 23:11.180 --> 23:17.180 And I was telling her about how like when I when I put in the video, I put the quotes that I was criticized for my progressive views. 23:17.180 --> 23:22.180 And I don't want people to think that I was like outright bullied or anything for it. 23:22.180 --> 23:30.180 But it was more there was a there was a tone and there was an understanding that like if I talked about certain things, I was going to get made fun of. 23:30.180 --> 23:40.180 And like there would be snide comments about things like it was very it was made very clear that I was one of three Democrats on staff at the church. 23:40.180 --> 23:43.180 Like they like we kept a tally because there were so few of us. 23:43.180 --> 23:47.180 And so I was at least like able to talk about that. 23:47.180 --> 24:00.180 But we didn't really talk about what that meant for me being on staff at a church because it still felt like there were things I couldn't really talk about my students just about where I stood on things because I was I was pro choice even when I worked at the church. 24:00.180 --> 24:02.180 But I wasn't allowed to talk about that. 24:02.180 --> 24:03.180 That's not something I could say. 24:03.180 --> 24:08.180 I was very pro LGBTQ, but I couldn't talk about that. 24:08.180 --> 24:16.180 I whenever we had the come at youth group about same sex attraction, as they would call it. 24:16.180 --> 24:25.180 I never felt like I could create the type of environment I wanted to because I wasn't allowed to tell these kids how I really felt about it. 24:25.180 --> 24:28.180 And because it would differ from what they were teaching. 24:28.180 --> 24:35.180 I couldn't I couldn't tell a kid that was that maybe was gay and was trying to trying to process through that like, hey, that's OK. 24:35.180 --> 24:40.180 Like, let's talk about it. Let's talk through that. Like, like, what does it look like to explore your sexuality? 24:40.180 --> 24:44.180 And I couldn't have conversations like that because it was not OK. 24:44.180 --> 24:51.180 And so that was really hard for me because I'm sure I had girls in my small group that were probably dealing with it. 24:51.180 --> 24:53.180 And so that was tough. And I'm trying to think. 24:53.180 --> 25:04.180 I had a hard time being a feminist in a church, too, because the way that it was set up, they had female pastors on staff and they are head pastor always said, you know, 25:04.180 --> 25:09.180 if I get if I get to heaven and the one thing I was was that women shouldn't be pastors, then whatever. 25:09.180 --> 25:15.180 That's fine. And so he tried to make it seem like he wanted to create an environment where he could in leadership. 25:15.180 --> 25:21.180 But then we would go to these meetings and they would make women in the kitchen comments and we would get left out of decision. 25:21.180 --> 25:33.180 And they would just undermine what they were saying and just like talk over us and not really take us into account and make snide comments when we would be vocal about things. 25:33.180 --> 25:39.180 And do you guys this just came up recently, too. Do you guys know what the Franklin Graham rule is? 25:39.180 --> 25:42.180 No. So there's a Franklin Graham rule. I think it's Franklin. 25:42.180 --> 25:46.180 What's called or maybe it's maybe it's not Franklin. Maybe it's Billy Graham. OK. 25:46.180 --> 25:54.180 But they they followed the Billy Graham rule, which said that like any male staff could not be alone with a female staff member. 25:54.180 --> 26:02.180 And there's just the whole idea behind it is that they never want the male staff to seem like they're doing anything wrong, even if it's innocent. 26:02.180 --> 26:06.180 But it creates this whole culture of the woman is a temptress. 26:06.180 --> 26:13.180 And that's why a man can't be alone with her. Like I was volunteering at Lakewood, which was two minutes from this church. 26:13.180 --> 26:16.180 And another male pastor was also volunteering there. 26:16.180 --> 26:21.180 And I could not ride in the car with him to go to Lakewood because of the appearance that it gives off. 26:21.180 --> 26:28.180 But, you know, damn well that the appearance is that I could be doing something wrong, not the male pastor. 26:28.180 --> 26:33.180 Like that's that that's what that gives off is that I am somehow tempting the male pastor, not the other way around. 26:33.180 --> 26:39.180 And so it just things like that, like they just set up environments where women were just not supported. 26:39.180 --> 26:46.180 I got talked to about wearing leggings one day because I would dress to go to the gym after working at the church. 26:46.180 --> 26:55.180 And I got told one day that I needed to stop wearing leggings unless I was wearing a shirt that my butt, because I needed to respect the male pastors. 26:55.180 --> 27:03.180 And so like you can sit. Yeah, you can sit there and say all day that you support women, but your actions don't reflect that. 27:03.180 --> 27:18.180 Not by the way that I was treated. So it's because it's the same thing that I always grew up hearing was like, you know, don't dress or women don't dress this way because you'll make your fellow brother stumble kind of thing. 27:18.180 --> 27:31.180 Like, yeah, yeah, you'd say that's like, oh, yeah, men are pigs. I mean, maybe if you raise them that way and, you know, it always somehow always the blame will end up on the woman every time. 27:31.180 --> 27:42.180 Like, there's no much as the church seems to try to say that there's more equality than before. It just doesn't seem to feel that way for sure. 27:42.180 --> 27:50.180 Yeah, which I feel like a lot of the more aggressive commenters on my social media are all these like Christian. 27:50.180 --> 27:59.180 What's the word I'm looking for? It's all Christian men that are like hella masculine men of like like the only way I know to describe it. 27:59.180 --> 28:05.180 Just that they get their rocks off trying to prove women wrong. 28:05.180 --> 28:10.180 I don't like how you said that, but you're right. 28:10.180 --> 28:14.180 I think listen, I'm thinking it. 28:14.180 --> 28:27.180 I think those bringing up this Billy Graham rule is kind of interesting because it's just like, you know, it's it's so weird because on its face, it's like, yeah, you know, don't have a distrust for men or pigs kind of thing. 28:27.180 --> 28:31.180 Like we don't trust men to be around women alone. You never know what's going to happen. 28:31.180 --> 28:43.180 You're totally right. Like if anything would have happened, like pastor would have just been prayed about. He would have, you know, been like, oh, this happened and he probably would have been prayed or by the congregation and applauded for his bravery of confessing it. 28:43.180 --> 28:48.180 And then, you know, what happens to the other person involved? 28:48.180 --> 28:55.180 The woman would have been asked, well, why did you put yourself in that situation? Why did you put yourself in a situation where you were alone with the pastor to begin with? 28:55.180 --> 29:04.180 Were you trying to seduce him or something like something like that? Right. Like the blame just squarely always falls on the women in situations like this. 29:04.180 --> 29:25.180 Well, and we we had a situation at County Line where there was a pastor that had an inappropriate relationship with a female volunteer and it was never really it was all just kind of like hush hush thrown under the rug. And I don't think anything was done for the like nothing that I know of was done for the victim. 29:25.180 --> 29:37.180 And even to this day, I'm trying to actually like get connected with her because I want to talk to her about what happened and like apologize for how I behaved because I remember like being feeling mad at her for what had happened. 29:37.180 --> 29:49.180 I don't think I like hated her because of everything that happened. But I remember thinking like it was her fault kind of to an extent that like she's part of the reason that this staff member like fell apart or whatever. 29:49.180 --> 29:59.180 And just having kind of a toxic view of it and having to kind of check myself and be like, no, she was the victim in all of this. Like she's the one that was taken advantage of. 29:59.180 --> 30:08.180 You're like, I don't know if it's like a church thing. It might just be a human thing, but everyone tries to find fault or find blame for things. 30:08.180 --> 30:24.180 Or I've gotten to a point where it's like blaming things or like faulting people just doesn't really make sense anymore. Like needing to find like the root cause of something because I don't think it's really possible to do and it's not very helpful. 30:24.180 --> 30:30.180 But in my upbringing, it always had to do with like blame and whose fault it is for what. 30:30.180 --> 30:39.180 And I just feel bad for like her. She was a victim and she was kind of shamed in the whole thing. And like that sucks. And I hate that that's what happened. 30:39.180 --> 30:46.180 And I talked to this girl who was a student in the youth group and we talked about some other things that just happened to her. 30:46.180 --> 30:51.180 And she told me she had taken it to male pastors who didn't do anything about it. 30:51.180 --> 31:02.180 And I was on staff at the time and she was like, I wish I would have brought it to you. And I said, honestly, if you had brought me probably still nothing would have happened. But I would have at least been able to be in your corner and wouldn't let it go. 31:02.180 --> 31:14.180 And so I would try to ensure that something happened. But it's just frustrating to like now that I'm out of it and stories about things that happened while I was on staff that got brushed under the rug. And it's it's really upsetting. 31:14.180 --> 31:25.180 Yeah, so it sounds like when it comes to blame, if it's a woman, it's her fault. But if it's a man, it's because of said nature almost. 31:25.180 --> 31:40.180 Yeah, it's the devil. It's Satan tempted. Like for being a male growing up and having this whole thing around like lust, lust was such a big thing that was talked about all the time to the point where it's like, I feel like they're creating the problem. 31:40.180 --> 31:54.180 But it was always just this thing of not lusting over people and how it's just so easy to lust over someone you shouldn't be doing that. There's like this book also that we could get into that I was not made to read but highly young man's battle. 31:54.180 --> 31:55.180 Yes, yep. 31:55.180 --> 31:57.180 I read every young woman's battle. 31:57.180 --> 32:19.180 Yeah, so I was made to read that book because every apparently every single male is going to have an issue with lusting over women. Like this is just an innate flaw in men and so it's like it's almost like it's not to be blamed on the men for the actions they take and what they do. 32:19.180 --> 32:33.180 It's always laid on like this ultimate flaw, which is just silly. Like, if you don't want to, you know, sexually assault someone or just anything of that sort, just don't do it. 32:33.180 --> 32:35.180 I don't know it's it's weird. 32:35.180 --> 32:38.180 You'd think it would be that simple. 32:38.180 --> 32:51.180 It is, but yeah, they want to give it's almost like men are given a scapegoat. Yeah, of like, we're just, we're just animals all men are just animals. 32:51.180 --> 33:00.180 You have no control, you can't help it. So the women have it's all our responsibility to do everything we possibly can to help you. 33:00.180 --> 33:03.180 Yeah, it's not my fucking job. 33:03.180 --> 33:05.180 I didn't sign up for that. 33:05.180 --> 33:18.180 And that's how it always was. And you can tell by the talks that were had at Lakewood. If you like whenever we would compare whenever the the guys and the girls would get separated what their talks were about. 33:18.180 --> 33:20.180 It was just ridiculous. 33:20.180 --> 33:27.180 How? Oh yeah, it was comical. Like we would laugh about it at the time, even though we were like fully in it and fully believing it. 33:27.180 --> 33:34.180 We still would laugh about the things that they told us were immodest and like the things we were getting told. 33:34.180 --> 33:36.180 Yeah. What a terrible time. 33:36.180 --> 33:45.180 It's messed up. If I feel like there's has something to do with like if you tell someone they're going to have a problem with something, then it almost manifests it. 33:45.180 --> 34:01.180 I don't think it manifests it. I think that you use it like you said earlier, when you tell someone that they're going to have an inherent problem, your inherent sin nature is that you're going to lust and you know, probably sexually assault someone or at least harass someone. 34:01.180 --> 34:08.180 It's a scapegoat to like do it. Right. It's almost like a permission being granted in some like twisted way. 34:08.180 --> 34:16.180 Like don't do this, but you're probably going to do it. But don't do it. But also if the women are in this exact circumstance and it happens. 34:16.180 --> 34:29.180 Yeah, yeah. It's don't do it. You probably will. Don't do it. If you do do it. It's probably because someone of the opposite sex or gender dressed up to skimpy. 34:29.180 --> 34:33.180 Or like whatever the thousand things like they said. 34:33.180 --> 34:39.180 Yeah, that also makes me think like again, like the the difference where like for women, it's almost like met with anger. 34:39.180 --> 34:49.180 Like it's fully put on women. But I remember having like youth groups and stuff where like we like confessed that we had watched pornography or something. 34:49.180 --> 35:00.180 And it was always met with like compassion. It's like, oh, other people are struggling with that, too. Like you're not alone and your struggles with that. It's just met in very different ways. 35:00.180 --> 35:16.180 I remember I was like not like a trailblazer, but like I was a hot commodity to have talk because I was one of the few women that was like willing to talk about women and like how they dealt with porn. 35:16.180 --> 35:23.180 Because it was like something that was never talked about in like the female circles is like you didn't talk about porn. Women don't watch porn. 35:23.180 --> 35:32.180 Yeah, like that was that was just like a super strange like idea that was drilled into your head. 35:32.180 --> 35:44.180 I think as a female is that like do all these things, make yourself like look a certain way, act a certain way and don't talk about any of the problems you actually deal with. Shut up about everything else. 35:44.180 --> 35:53.180 Suppress your sexuality. Well, like suppress your sexuality and your personality and all this stuff, right? 35:53.180 --> 35:58.180 I'd like to think that sexuality has a play in your personality. 35:58.180 --> 36:11.180 Interesting. But yeah, it's a topic that just I think was discussed more with men. And the only thing about sexuality that was discussed with men was the whole lusting after others thing and nothing else. 36:11.180 --> 36:19.180 And then for women and sexuality, it's just don't do stuff that'll tempt men to lust after you. Cover up. 36:19.180 --> 36:23.180 That's as much sexuality talks as we got. It's not healthy. 36:23.180 --> 36:34.180 I mean, just like the even like the purity culture is not healthy in general, but even like the I went to a public school for up until high school. 36:34.180 --> 36:44.180 My sex education came from a public school, sixth grade, but it was our fifth grade. Sorry, I don't want to lie about my own experiences. It was fifth grade. 36:44.180 --> 36:51.180 It was awful. Like it was still a rural, not rural, but very conservative area of Indiana. 36:51.180 --> 36:56.180 Like it would have been probably exactly the same as what happened in Lakewood. 36:56.180 --> 37:06.180 But it was weird because we had a Macmillan Health come out to do it. They were like more like of a science institution, like a health and fitness kind of like education institution. 37:06.180 --> 37:15.180 Yeah, we know Macmillan. We went there. We went to Macmillan Center for ours. Yeah. So we had gone to they had like the Macmillan Center or something. 37:15.180 --> 37:29.180 We went to the actual location and had like a whole slideshow anatomy thing and whatnot. We had like one at school too, where at the end, boys were just given a stick of deodorant or something. 37:29.180 --> 37:37.180 Like a puberty talk was had at the school, but then like more of a sex talk was had at the Macmillan Center where the teachers just didn't have to do anything. 37:37.180 --> 37:45.180 I have a really vivid memory about the video we watched in fifth grade where we learned about our uterus and our ovaries. 37:45.180 --> 37:58.180 It was like a girl was on a camping trip at her friend's house in the backyard and she like woke up with her period and the friend's mom drew the female reproductive system in pancake batter. 37:58.180 --> 38:02.180 Oh, it's like a really distinct memory. 38:02.180 --> 38:04.180 We should find that video. 38:04.180 --> 38:08.180 I think I searched for it and I found it one time. 38:08.180 --> 38:17.180 I forget, did Lakewood like when you had it in, was it like fifth grade or something where they had it at school? 38:17.180 --> 38:23.180 What did they give the girls? Because like the guys they gave them deodorant because we were about to start getting smelly and stinky. 38:23.180 --> 38:26.180 I think we got a pad. Yeah, that makes sense. 38:26.180 --> 38:28.180 Just one? No tampons. 38:28.180 --> 38:33.180 You got one pad? Probably. Eight hours, if even, right? 38:33.180 --> 38:39.180 Yeah. Don't even get me started on the tax on period products. 38:39.180 --> 38:43.180 Because they're luxury tags, right? Feminine products are a luxury. 38:43.180 --> 38:47.180 And birth control is abortion adjacent. 38:47.180 --> 38:49.180 Yeah, makes sense. 38:49.180 --> 38:52.180 I don't want to bring that up. 38:52.180 --> 38:54.180 I'm sorry. 38:54.180 --> 38:55.180 Not yet. 38:55.180 --> 39:05.180 That's going to be interesting because it's a two-parter. So it's like it's pretty long that they talk about this and it's pretty bad. 39:05.180 --> 39:10.180 If you want to hear it, like and subscribe. 39:10.180 --> 39:12.180 I hate being a woman sometimes. 39:12.180 --> 39:14.180 I love being a man. It's way easier. 39:14.180 --> 39:22.180 You know, women kind of must suck because like patriarchy is out to get you, your own body is out to get you and like you just don't get a break. 39:22.180 --> 39:28.180 Government's out to get you. Well that counts as the patriarchy, right? 39:28.180 --> 39:30.180 I don't know. I want to get back. 39:30.180 --> 39:37.180 Wait, oh my God, I think I found it. Always changing, always growing is the name of the video. Oh my God, it's 50 minutes long. 39:37.180 --> 39:40.180 The kids have sit through that whole thing. God damn. 39:40.180 --> 39:44.180 Okay, well you got to, I'll put the link in the description if you, if that is the video. 39:44.180 --> 39:50.180 Oh no, this is way too invasive. This talks about boners. This is not it. They would never talk about boners at Lakewood. 39:50.180 --> 39:53.180 That's why you weren't at Lakewood. No, they wouldn't. 39:53.180 --> 39:57.180 No, this isn't good at Lakewood when I saw this video. Yeah. 39:57.180 --> 40:04.180 I saw a much more instructive sex video when I went to public school for a year in sixth grade. 40:04.180 --> 40:14.180 And I had never had this sex talk. So I watched the video and I was just very traumatized. 40:14.180 --> 40:24.180 Oh, this is somewhat off topic in, but I learned what a boner was when I went to Leo in eighth grade. 40:24.180 --> 40:31.180 Are you serious? Yeah, because I distinctly remember this because apparently it was traumatizing to me at the time. 40:31.180 --> 40:37.180 But I had like jeans where like the zipper part like wouldn't be straight. It would like bulge out a little bit. 40:37.180 --> 40:45.180 Like ask me like, do you have a boner? Like just straight up. I had no idea what that was. No way. Didn't know what it was. 40:45.180 --> 40:51.180 I learned a lot of terminology going to Leo that I had never heard before. 40:51.180 --> 40:56.180 Can I also tell an unrelated story or do we need to stay focused? 40:56.180 --> 41:02.180 My coworker was telling us a story about how she started in a new school. 41:02.180 --> 41:10.180 And when she went there, one of the girls accused her of like of giving job and she didn't know what it was. 41:10.180 --> 41:16.180 So she was just like, yeah, she thought it would make her popular. 41:16.180 --> 41:25.180 Some girl hit her on the back of the head because she was like, I heard you're the girl who gives the head or something like that. 41:25.180 --> 41:32.180 But just hit her on the back of the head for it because it like spread around school her very first day. 41:32.180 --> 41:40.180 And then she had to go home and ask her mom what a blowjob was because she got hit in the head for it. 41:40.180 --> 41:45.180 It's upsetting. Yeah, I learned what a dildo was at Leo too. 41:45.180 --> 41:48.180 I have no concept of when I learned what a dildo was. 41:48.180 --> 41:56.180 I have a vivid memory of that. I have a lot of vivid memories from Leo. It must have been a very traumatic time in my life. 41:56.180 --> 42:04.180 Really sucks. I had a kid want to fight me over me not letting him play with my Rubik's Cube. 42:04.180 --> 42:08.180 All right. Bringing it back. What were we talking about? 42:08.180 --> 42:15.180 So you mentioned a little bit earlier that you didn't feel comfortable sharing your beliefs with your students. 42:15.180 --> 42:29.180 Did you have actual conversations with pastors and lead people or was it just more of an assumption of like not sharing your belief because they were more progressive in a sense than everyone else at the church? 42:29.180 --> 42:34.180 I pretty much assumed that there were certain things I couldn't talk about. 42:34.180 --> 42:38.180 I pushed the envelope a little bit with like my feminist views. 42:38.180 --> 42:45.180 And then I also told my seniors that I voted for Joe Biden because they were raging about election fraud. 42:45.180 --> 42:49.180 So I needed them to know that I did agree with them. 42:49.180 --> 42:52.180 That was towards the end of your work there. 42:52.180 --> 43:01.180 Yeah, that was like I was just a volunteer at that point. I wasn't on staff anymore because their senior year I had moved on to a job. 43:01.180 --> 43:06.180 And so I was simply a volunteer. But yeah, I pretty much just assumed it. 43:06.180 --> 43:12.180 I mean, I was going to keep volunteering there at one point and Nick and I decided to move in together. 43:12.180 --> 43:14.180 And I knew that that would disqualify me as a volunteer. 43:14.180 --> 43:21.180 And that's why we waited to do it until I quit working there because I was genuinely worried that if Nick moved in together that I would get fired. 43:21.180 --> 43:23.180 That was an actual thought that I had in my brain. 43:23.180 --> 43:26.180 How would they have known that you moved in together? 43:26.180 --> 43:33.180 Well, because I would want to like, I don't know, it comes up a decent amount because I just like talk about things that Nick and I do. 43:33.180 --> 43:38.180 But it was also like a huge thing with my family. It blew up with my family. 43:38.180 --> 43:46.180 So I'm sure it would have come up at some point because I was not well for like a week and a half when we decided to do it. 43:46.180 --> 44:00.180 Hear that story a decent amount with people that become more progressive in Christianity or outside of Christianity where it's usually a thing with your family not taking it well and having to deal with that. 44:00.180 --> 44:05.180 Like for some reason, your family feels like they're involved in this decision. 44:05.180 --> 44:19.180 Oh, it tore my it tore my family up because it basically became a me and my brothers against my parents situation where like my brothers were on my side and supporting me in the decision because I called them before I told my parents. 44:19.180 --> 44:29.180 And I think that's the only thing that like saved our relationship with our parents is that they realized that like nobody in the family agreed with them, that they were the minority in the family. 44:29.180 --> 44:37.180 So I think it kind of helped them check themselves a little bit of like, do we really want to tear the family apart over this just because we disagree with it? 44:37.180 --> 44:44.180 It's like, no, that's dumb. It's a dumb thing to be upset about and make Thanksgiving awkward. 44:44.180 --> 45:01.180 It's surprising to me that job would feel like because like it's right. Like it surprises me that your family would felt like they have any say, but it just surprises me anymore that you would feel your job would fire you over the fact that you moved in with your partner. 45:01.180 --> 45:19.180 There was a very specific meeting that we had where actually, so it was me and like two other girls that were on staff at the time, all the same age, all like 23 or whatever at the time that the head pastor literally looked at us and was like, promise me you'll never move in with your boyfriend before you're married. 45:19.180 --> 45:33.180 Yeah, I have witnesses, me and the girl that used to be the like creative arts director there. We still talk about that conversation because it was so out of line and made us so uncomfortable. 45:33.180 --> 45:43.180 And we both, I think we all just kind of like chuckled and just like looked at him because we didn't know what to do. But so I mean, it's like that kind of attitude of what if we did? 45:43.180 --> 45:52.180 Yeah, yeah. God, I don't know if you keep saying some of this stuff and I don't even know how to respond to it. 45:52.180 --> 45:56.180 It's just, I should have never worked at a church. 45:56.180 --> 46:06.180 So you think that he would have said the same thing? Like, yeah, like, like, like, like, Brian, did you ever have a conversation like this with the head pastor? 46:06.180 --> 46:20.180 Not really, because it wasn't on the table. Like, I was still in school. And yeah, it was just like, Natalie was still in school. I was still in school. We got married right after Natalie graduated. 46:20.180 --> 46:26.180 So it just worked out to the point where it wasn't really a topic that ever got discussed. 46:26.180 --> 46:42.180 This was like, he said this so out of the blue, too. Like, we weren't having a conversation or anything. It just like was a thing that he said. And as we were sitting at the table, we had a conversation about moving in or like anything like that. 46:42.180 --> 46:53.180 Nope, I was not. I was never at that level with the head pastor where I would feel even comfortable talking about liking a boy in front of him. 46:53.180 --> 47:00.180 It just came out of the blue. Yeah, never had that experience. And why would I? I'm a man. 47:00.180 --> 47:05.180 Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I was just making sure. 47:05.180 --> 47:10.180 It was like, it was so uncomfortable to because it was like clearly because it was three young females. 47:10.180 --> 47:17.180 That's the hot new thing to do is like, you know, Belle, move in with your partner. Hot Chip and why? 47:17.180 --> 47:22.180 Because that's what it is when you decide to move in as an act of rebellion. That's why you're doing it. 47:22.180 --> 47:27.180 Rebellion against God and his perfect design and marriage between a male and a female. 47:27.180 --> 47:31.180 Coverment marriage. That's God's design. 47:31.180 --> 47:39.180 Do you? Okay. Did you feel more open and free? It wasn't your job? Like when you were just volunteering? 47:39.180 --> 47:45.180 So when you're on full time staff, did you feel more free to speak at that point or? 47:45.180 --> 47:55.180 I think to an extent just because I kind of knew my time was coming to an end because I was planning to be done after my seniors graduated. 47:55.180 --> 48:04.180 But then I think I was like I was having a crisis of where I was struggling with my sense of identity because I was not really going to church anymore, 48:04.180 --> 48:08.180 but still wanting to be a part of something where I felt like I was making a difference. 48:08.180 --> 48:13.180 So I think I tried to rein it in a little bit towards the end because I wanted to keep volunteering. 48:13.180 --> 48:22.180 But to keep volunteering would also mean that I would have had to continue to attend church and I didn't want to do that anymore because I was enjoying not going too much. 48:22.180 --> 48:27.180 And I also wanted to move in with my boyfriend. 48:27.180 --> 48:34.180 So I think because I knew I wanted to move in with and because I didn't want to go to church anymore, I was not a good volunteer. 48:34.180 --> 48:41.180 Like when it was there last year, I was not going to church. I was not. I was barely a Christian at that point. 48:41.180 --> 48:47.180 I think I was like already probably starting to construct a little bit of like, yeah, man, I really don't want to go to church anymore. 48:47.180 --> 48:52.180 And I was just like trying to make it work, but I hated it. So yeah, I don't know. That was a weird time. 48:52.180 --> 48:57.180 I felt very like disjointed when all that was happening because that was when I was trying to wrestle. 48:57.180 --> 49:03.180 I really don't want to go to church, but this is what I'm supposed to believe. I'm supposed to like church. But wow, I really hate this. 49:03.180 --> 49:06.180 Like I started wrestling that. 49:06.180 --> 49:09.180 What about church made you not want to attend anymore? 49:09.180 --> 49:14.180 I felt like I was going just because I had to getting anything out of being there. 49:14.180 --> 49:19.180 I just felt like a robot that was doing something she was supposed to be doing that was expected of me. 49:19.180 --> 49:25.180 And that really bothered me. I was I feel like I've kind of I've become anarchist, Becca. 49:25.180 --> 49:30.180 I don't know. I just my personality is I don't I don't like being things. 49:30.180 --> 49:33.180 I don't like doing things just because it's expected of me. 49:33.180 --> 49:35.180 And that's exactly what I was doing. 49:35.180 --> 49:41.180 I wasn't believing in what I was doing anymore and I wasn't being forced to as part of my job. 49:41.180 --> 49:47.180 So that's when I started asking, like, you know, these past however many years, I've been going here because I've been paid to. 49:47.180 --> 49:52.180 And now that I'm not being paid to, I don't want to be here. So why am I here? 49:52.180 --> 49:58.180 It was a that was a weird time of just trying to understand and remember what made me want to go to church in the place. 49:58.180 --> 50:04.180 And I think it was really a sense of unity. And I had found that sense of community at my new job. 50:04.180 --> 50:11.180 I had friends at my new job. And because I had that fulfilled somewhere else, church lost its purpose for me. 50:11.180 --> 50:22.180 I think it's interesting to hear people's stories about what's getting burned out and just kind of like stopping going to church because you do you start to not feel can. 50:22.180 --> 50:28.180 I feel like for the majority of people start to feel just like not connected to the community of the church. 50:28.180 --> 50:35.180 And so you just kind of start to slip away slowly. They say that it's, you know, the devil tempting you away or like if you stop going. 50:35.180 --> 50:42.180 It's true, though, if you like stop going to church regularly, you start to realize what you're looking for is community and you can find that in other places. 50:42.180 --> 50:46.180 So you start to read other times you lose the religious aspect of things. 50:46.180 --> 50:54.180 What's interesting to me, though, is how the Christians around you will react when they realize that you're no longer part of the clique. 50:54.180 --> 51:05.180 So I think we should get into that a little bit with how Christians reacted to some of your deconstruction content on tech specifically, even not even on TikTok. 51:05.180 --> 51:14.180 You had mentioned that even like former classmates at Lakewood had started to bully you as well in really mean ways. 51:14.180 --> 51:33.180 Yeah, I actually like just very recently had someone who was like a prominent leader in my life when I was younger message me on Instagram because I posted about I compared the forgiving of the ten thousand dollars student loan to Jesus. 51:33.180 --> 51:47.180 Because I shared a post that it said, if you're a Christian and you're big mad about the possibility of loan debt being canceled, let me remind you that the entirety of your faith is built upon a debt you couldn't pay that someone stepped in and paid for you. 51:47.180 --> 51:56.180 And it was someone like getting up in arms and she said, are you saying the sacrifice you made is the same as the student debt thing? 51:56.180 --> 52:02.180 I don't know if I'm reading it right, but I was a little shocked that this would be your view. 52:02.180 --> 52:13.180 And I just like went in and talked about like how Jesus actually like uses debt forgiveness as a parable and all these things throwing Bible knowledge at her and just said, also, I'm deconstructing my faith. 52:13.180 --> 52:16.180 So it's not that surprising. So then she was like asking me what that was. 52:16.180 --> 52:25.180 And I was kind of telling her about it. And she was like, so do you still believe in Jesus? Are you rejecting traditions you were raised with like Jesus? 52:25.180 --> 52:32.180 Just like I get that question so much of like, are you rejecting the Lord? 52:32.180 --> 52:40.180 But I just like kind of told her where I was at and told her that I'm just like, I'm exploring what it looks like to not be a Christian. 52:40.180 --> 52:44.180 I'm exploring what it looks like to be a Christian and see it differently. 52:44.180 --> 52:51.180 I'm just kind of like exploring avenues of what I can be outside of the straight white male evangelical Christian. 52:51.180 --> 52:57.180 And her last message she said to me was, well, I'll be praying for your journey, my friend. 52:57.180 --> 53:07.180 So that's like, and that conversation was like pretty stereotypical of like all the comments I've gotten are always like, you're rejecting the Lord. 53:07.180 --> 53:12.180 I'll be praying for you. 53:12.180 --> 53:17.180 But yeah, she was one reason that I was as soon as she I saw that I had a message from her. 53:17.180 --> 53:25.180 I was like, OK, here we go. But yeah, the other one from he he literally makes it his life. 53:25.180 --> 53:31.180 I hate this because I also want to give up, but he literally makes it his goal to like argue with people on social media. 53:31.180 --> 53:38.180 Like I've talked to multiple most a lot of women to talk to a lot of women who have been bullied in comment sections by him. 53:38.180 --> 53:41.180 My boyfriend can't stand him. Yeah, he is. 53:41.180 --> 53:47.180 Seems like I guess we mentioned that earlier about like it's almost like a dominating women kind of thing. 53:47.180 --> 53:50.180 Yeah, he gets off on trying to prove people wrong. 53:50.180 --> 53:57.180 It is cool because there's there is a girl who she was like a couple of grades above me that was on the soccer team with me. 53:57.180 --> 54:00.180 And she has seen like what I've been posting. 54:00.180 --> 54:08.180 And so she's like started sending me posts of things that she sees on Instagram, which has been cool because I don't I don't have like a super close relationship there. 54:08.180 --> 54:12.180 But she like sends me funny like ex Christian memes. 54:12.180 --> 54:23.180 So like just kind of like I actually did have someone from Lakewood that went to Lakewood comment on that video that I posted. 54:23.180 --> 54:27.180 Give me a sec. I gotta find it. She said we attended the same school. 54:27.180 --> 54:31.180 Finding I'm not alone is comforting, but seeing photos from places I know hits differently. 54:31.180 --> 54:35.180 And I knew I knew she was. I told her I said I definitely recognize you. 54:35.180 --> 54:40.180 I think you're around the same age as my brother's the most comforting conversation I've had with other former students. 54:40.180 --> 54:47.180 She said, Yep, I think between two of them, I worked at the same small company briefly with she said named my brother. 54:47.180 --> 54:51.180 She said my husband was in my graduating class. We have each other sitting through it all. 54:51.180 --> 54:57.180 I think it's that's a cool aspect of like ex Christian women supporting each other. 54:57.180 --> 55:03.180 I think that's that's nice, especially you have a lot of bullies. 55:03.180 --> 55:07.180 Seems like a lot of bullying women. I don't I don't really like that. 55:07.180 --> 55:15.180 I'm a shitty. Yeah, I mean, I that's what makes posting all of these videos that I do and getting the dumb comments that I do worth it, 55:15.180 --> 55:22.180 because I also get come at and like I have ones here that it's like recovering Southern Baptist at the church in twenty teen for everything I lost when I left. 55:22.180 --> 55:31.180 I've gained so much more raised Baptist pastor's kid homeschooled attended Christian University left the church in twenty twenty and I've never I get comments like that. 55:31.180 --> 55:38.180 That make all the dumb comments worth it because it creates a space for shared experience. 55:38.180 --> 55:42.180 It's really nice. Let's get into some of the bad comments. 55:42.180 --> 55:48.180 What's your what's your favorite? The one I made a tick tock with it because so horrible. 55:48.180 --> 55:53.180 The so you never really accepted Jesus, your savior of your sins. 55:53.180 --> 55:59.180 You just faked being saved without true repentance. Question mark exclamation point. 55:59.180 --> 56:02.180 This is something I mean, I find a lot of things interesting. 56:02.180 --> 56:05.180 And that's probably like my buzzword is this is so interesting. 56:05.180 --> 56:16.180 But this is like a fascinating thing where it seems like evangelical Christianity can't maybe just product Protestantism in general can't deal with people leaving their faith. 56:16.180 --> 56:20.180 And so they say that you were never saved in the first place. Right. 56:20.180 --> 56:28.180 It gets like, yeah, if you would have actually known Jesus and like felt his love and you obviously wouldn't have left him like that would be impossible. 56:28.180 --> 56:37.180 Like they just like can't wrap their minds around the fact that like it's not necessarily like they have a lot of toxic theology, but it's not necessarily God's possible love. 56:37.180 --> 56:48.180 That's the problem. It's all the baggage they've wrapped around it of like the political charged issues that shouldn't be politically charged issues are like just patriarchy in general. 56:48.180 --> 56:52.180 Like being women is less than like stuff like that. 56:52.180 --> 56:59.180 That's causing the issue. Like it's fascinating to me that they don't seem to want to confront actual issues the church have. 56:59.180 --> 57:03.180 And so they just like pass the blame off on to the person that's leaving. 57:03.180 --> 57:06.180 So it's just victim blaming like so much we've talked about tonight. Right. 57:06.180 --> 57:08.180 It's like, oh, yeah, they were never saved in the first place. 57:08.180 --> 57:12.180 They can't possibly leave the church if you were saved. 57:12.180 --> 57:23.180 What's funny is there before this comment came on the Tic Tac, there was a guy that comment, you know, how do you like do some small caps and some caps to like show sarcasm? 57:23.180 --> 57:27.180 He like posted it was like, but you were never saved. 57:27.180 --> 57:33.180 Like, and he joked that. And then I got this comment. So I tagged him in it. I was like, well, there you go. 57:33.180 --> 57:37.180 There it is. It has to be so normal. 57:37.180 --> 57:46.180 What I'm curious about is how these people even found your Tic Tac and like on top of that decided to even comment. 57:46.180 --> 57:52.180 Like there's one comment that I saw on your one that went semi-viral. 57:52.180 --> 57:56.180 It was like by progressive views, you mean homosexuality is OK. 57:56.180 --> 58:03.180 But by your photos, don't blame the church or Christianity for accepting your lifestyle. 58:03.180 --> 58:09.180 Yeah, like they totally assumed my sexuality just based on a short video. 58:09.180 --> 58:15.180 And I'm like, what? Like, I don't care. 58:15.180 --> 58:18.180 Like, you can assume whatever you want, I guess, about. Oh, and not that it matters. 58:18.180 --> 58:21.180 But, dude, what the fuck? 58:21.180 --> 58:27.180 There is even one recently that I like it came within the last couple of weeks. 58:27.180 --> 58:36.180 I think I screen shot it where some girl was like saying that you can tell you can tell that my life is going downhill because of the video goes on. 58:36.180 --> 58:39.180 My physical appearance spirals as well. 58:39.180 --> 58:47.180 And I was like, you mean, because I gained weight because I'm not the one hundred and forty pounds that I was when I was in. 58:47.180 --> 58:51.180 I got older and my body changed. 58:51.180 --> 59:00.180 Which like happens, I think. But and it's just so funny how like they try to pick apart anything they can. 59:00.180 --> 59:05.180 So it's like, yes, she's probably gay. That's why she left the church. Yeah, look at her. 59:05.180 --> 59:14.180 She's fat now. Like they try it like, like, yeah, I do weigh a lot and I've come from my body than I've ever been. 59:14.180 --> 59:17.180 And also, my sexuality is none of your business. 59:17.180 --> 59:28.180 So, like, I don't know, these people, they they I call them tick tock pastors, tick tock comment pastors, because they're just dumb. 59:28.180 --> 59:38.180 This this comment from RK Schwartz says, I can't believe you didn't open yourself up completely to emotional manipulation and didn't let yourself be indoctrinated. 59:38.180 --> 59:42.180 Unbelievable. Heartbreaking. 59:42.180 --> 59:48.180 You can imagine who would say that. I don't know. It's pretty funny. Great guy. 59:48.180 --> 59:55.180 I got a lot of these. You were just in a bad place. That's not God. 59:55.180 --> 01:00:03.180 However, he was ten twenty six to thirty is I didn't even look it up. I didn't bother. 01:00:03.180 --> 01:00:09.180 Hebrews 1026, it said, however, Hebrews 1026 to 30 is apparently a good church. 01:00:09.180 --> 01:00:12.180 You respond to a lot of those. I don't think I would. 01:00:12.180 --> 01:00:25.180 I started to and I responded to like really ridiculous ones like the one saying that basically me getting fat was showing that I'm lost without the Lord. 01:00:25.180 --> 01:00:32.180 But I'll respond to it like that. But I've stopped responding to a lot of them on my like smaller tick tocks where I get feed. 01:00:32.180 --> 01:00:35.180 I'll respond some and try to engage if I can. But yeah, I kind of give it up. 01:00:35.180 --> 01:00:40.180 My brother told me I need to just stop. And I was like, but what if I reach one person? 01:00:40.180 --> 01:00:45.180 But I know I won't. Church mentality, too. 01:00:45.180 --> 01:00:53.180 One life at a time. I think I still probably would have that memorized if they played it for me. 01:00:53.180 --> 01:01:01.180 Yeah, I've been recently listening to county line sermons just because I wanted to see what they're saying. 01:01:01.180 --> 01:01:09.180 And it's changed since I was been there since I was there. But it's still like I have a lot of it memorized. 01:01:09.180 --> 01:01:13.180 Yeah, but you meant the church changed. But you're talking about the slogans probably. 01:01:13.180 --> 01:01:19.180 Yeah, they have like a video that they play before the service that like tells all their beliefs. 01:01:19.180 --> 01:01:25.180 We believe in God's radical, unconditional and unwavering love for all people. 01:01:25.180 --> 01:01:32.180 They you or water down that message. That's why do they do that? 01:01:32.180 --> 01:01:37.180 Do you know why is that video exists? I don't know. 01:01:37.180 --> 01:01:44.180 Because you know, but they do it in it. But they have a kid dub, a kid's voice dub over it for Youth Men Sunday. 01:01:44.180 --> 01:01:49.180 Sticky Sunday. Yeah, that they do once a month. Second Sunday of every month. 01:01:49.180 --> 01:01:58.180 Yeah, I think we're going to be responding to the podcast that county line has the like, I remember you telling me that. 01:01:58.180 --> 01:02:03.180 Yeah, Jesus Center Family podcast or whatever. I sent Chris the episode. 01:02:03.180 --> 01:02:11.180 I'm trying to see. I got this comment a lot. But small is the gate and narrow is the road to life and few ever find it. 01:02:11.180 --> 01:02:15.180 But I feel like a lot of Christians take the easy route. 01:02:15.180 --> 01:02:21.180 I'm sorry to hear this. People hurt people and not even on this causes confusion, discontent and hurt. 01:02:21.180 --> 01:02:27.180 How do you how do you feel about people saying that it was just a specific church but not Christianity in general? 01:02:27.180 --> 01:02:30.180 Oh, I made a whole video telling people stop saying that it's not their church. 01:02:30.180 --> 01:02:36.180 That video. So that was the first video like thoughtfully scripted and didn't just like talk about it. 01:02:36.180 --> 01:02:42.180 I like actually sat down and kind of wrote out my feelings and beliefs on it and did some actual research with it. 01:02:42.180 --> 01:02:51.180 Because to me, when people say not my church, I equated a lot to the not all men saying that was going around. 01:02:51.180 --> 01:02:56.180 And that's kind of the argument that I tried to use when I very soon to when the Me Too movement came around, 01:02:56.180 --> 01:03:05.180 men started using the hashtag and were completely discrediting these victims that are trying to share about their experiences and what they've gone. 01:03:05.180 --> 01:03:10.180 And that's that's the thing is like, I know that when I'm telling stories about these things that Christians did, 01:03:10.180 --> 01:03:12.180 I know that not all Christians have done this. 01:03:12.180 --> 01:03:20.180 But when you come in and you say, well, my church doesn't do that, you completely take what someone is trying to say and you make it about yourself. 01:03:20.180 --> 01:03:25.180 And you're just completely taking away the fact that there's a victim trying to explain what has happened to them. 01:03:25.180 --> 01:03:27.180 And you're trying to make it all about you. 01:03:27.180 --> 01:03:32.180 And for some reason, Christian attitude to that, like they can't take responsibility. 01:03:32.180 --> 01:03:38.180 It comes back to that scapegoating Christians like to do that with every if they feel they're being accused something they need to scapegoat it. 01:03:38.180 --> 01:03:42.180 And they need to prove that they're wrong and they need you to absolve them of blame. 01:03:42.180 --> 01:03:45.180 And sometimes it's OK to be like, yeah, that happened. 01:03:45.180 --> 01:03:47.180 Like that that is something that happened. 01:03:47.180 --> 01:03:50.180 And that sucks. And I'm really sorry you experienced that. 01:03:50.180 --> 01:03:54.180 And but people coming in my comments and saying, well, my church isn't like that. 01:03:54.180 --> 01:04:00.180 You should try that. My favorite comment was someone that said you should try Catholicism like fuck. 01:04:00.180 --> 01:04:04.180 No, that's so horrible. 01:04:04.180 --> 01:04:08.180 Like Catholicism is the last branch of Christianity I'm ever fucking trying. 01:04:08.180 --> 01:04:10.180 It's completely workspace. 01:04:10.180 --> 01:04:17.180 But I just like was getting so aggravated because every single video I was posting was, well, I didn't experience that. 01:04:17.180 --> 01:04:19.180 Well, that didn't happen to me. 01:04:19.180 --> 01:04:21.180 And like, I don't care that that didn't happen to you. 01:04:21.180 --> 01:04:24.180 I'm sharing about my experiences and my experiences alone. 01:04:24.180 --> 01:04:28.180 So shut up and listen to me and don't tell me that your church didn't do that. 01:04:28.180 --> 01:04:31.180 Don't tell me that you'd experience it. I'm not talking about you. 01:04:31.180 --> 01:04:33.180 I'm talking to me. 01:04:33.180 --> 01:04:36.180 Yeah, I thought that was a really thoughtful video. 01:04:36.180 --> 01:04:39.180 It's not something I ever thought about before. 01:04:39.180 --> 01:04:42.180 So I really appreciated your viewpoint on that. 01:04:42.180 --> 01:04:46.180 I don't so yeah, I don't really know many people that I'm not a Christian. 01:04:46.180 --> 01:04:51.180 My parents don't know, which is fine if they just we don't talk about it ever. 01:04:51.180 --> 01:04:54.180 My brother knows and he's been down a similar path. 01:04:54.180 --> 01:05:00.180 But like it's just it's not worth me telling people usually unless they start a conversation. 01:05:00.180 --> 01:05:04.180 But like a lot of times it doesn't seem like it leads into a good place. 01:05:04.180 --> 01:05:07.180 I tried to just ignore it and let people talk and listen. 01:05:07.180 --> 01:05:14.180 It was a really interesting perspective for me to look through some of your videos 01:05:14.180 --> 01:05:20.180 and get different perspectives from people, different life experiences during deconstruction than I had. 01:05:20.180 --> 01:05:24.180 But also a public response to them was interesting. 01:05:24.180 --> 01:05:30.180 How was the response to this specific video about Not My Church? 01:05:30.180 --> 01:05:34.180 There weren't like too many comments on it or anything. 01:05:34.180 --> 01:05:39.180 I got I was just pulling it up. I only had like got like 1400 views. 01:05:39.180 --> 01:05:43.180 I got 40 likes, but people said like one person said perfectly said, Becca. 01:05:43.180 --> 01:05:47.180 Another said that with all periods. Thank you so much. 01:05:47.180 --> 01:05:55.180 Someone else said, amen. Some other lady said, she give a psychological. I don't know what that means. 01:05:55.180 --> 01:05:59.180 I didn't engage with it, so I didn't get any further clarification. 01:05:59.180 --> 01:06:02.180 But I mean, like decent response to it. 01:06:02.180 --> 01:06:07.180 Usually I'll get at least one comment on these about like people disagreeing with what I say. 01:06:07.180 --> 01:06:12.180 So that's kind of what I figured that she give a psychological answer was probably about. 01:06:12.180 --> 01:06:22.180 But I don't know that I felt really good about that video because that's something that happens in the church all the time is like victim stories are just ush or discredited. 01:06:22.180 --> 01:06:27.180 And I think people commenting that on my video a whole bunch. 01:06:27.180 --> 01:06:29.180 It was just like, this isn't your story. I'm not talking about. 01:06:29.180 --> 01:06:38.180 I'm sure there are churches out there that probably do some great work and are affirming of most people and all people, hopefully. 01:06:38.180 --> 01:06:47.180 But for you to come into my experience and make it about yourself is so selfish and so just dumb. 01:06:47.180 --> 01:06:49.180 I don't know what else to say. 01:06:49.180 --> 01:06:51.180 Just spit because that's not the point of the video. 01:06:51.180 --> 01:06:55.180 The point of the video is for me to hear about all these places where it's perfect. 01:06:55.180 --> 01:07:00.180 The point of the video was I experienced something that sucked and I need an outlet for it. 01:07:00.180 --> 01:07:07.180 Yeah, they're commenting on literally you telling your story that it wasn't like that at all churches. 01:07:07.180 --> 01:07:12.180 Yeah. And then I just don't know what a real church is. 01:07:12.180 --> 01:07:22.180 I I commented on a lot of them saying like bold of you to my journey because they just assumed a lot from a 60 second video, which is fine. 01:07:22.180 --> 01:07:25.180 I feel like that's tick tock comments in general. I don't know. 01:07:25.180 --> 01:07:32.180 Well, and like my story is like a stop in 2020 during the pandemic. 01:07:32.180 --> 01:07:40.180 Like conservative churches around here were just ridiculous. So I started attending virtually a church in Portland, Oregon. 01:07:40.180 --> 01:07:45.180 It was recommended to me by some people. It was very progressive and it's really great. 01:07:45.180 --> 01:07:53.180 I was like going to a church for almost a year and a half virtually like talking with the pastor, like being in a virtual small group there. 01:07:53.180 --> 01:08:02.180 Like this really small church in Portland was like a safe space for me to finally stop struggling and just give up with Christianity in a way. 01:08:02.180 --> 01:08:12.180 If that makes sense where it's like I went to one of those churches that's not like normal evangelical church and I still didn't end up staying being a Christian. 01:08:12.180 --> 01:08:17.180 Like that was OK. Right. Like the pastor was fine when we had conversations about it. 01:08:17.180 --> 01:08:25.180 Like it's like, yeah, I'm glad I was able to create a safe space for you to decide this isn't for you kind of thing. 01:08:25.180 --> 01:08:34.180 Yeah, like he like they provided the space for you to explore it comfortably without feeling the shame and guilt of like coming to that decision. 01:08:34.180 --> 01:08:42.180 It's kind of ridiculous to say to someone's personal story that like you just would have gone to a better church, then it wouldn't have been like that. 01:08:42.180 --> 01:08:47.180 Could be true. Yeah, you know, it's probably not true. Right. Like it's not how everyone's stories. 01:08:47.180 --> 01:08:52.180 Well, and like I thought so highly of County Line for a really time. 01:08:52.180 --> 01:08:58.180 And it wasn't until I was working there that I started to kind of see the issues that were there. 01:08:58.180 --> 01:09:04.180 And honestly, even still for a church like it's half decent compared to a lot of places. 01:09:04.180 --> 01:09:08.180 Decent, which is sad, given some of the things that I talked about. 01:09:08.180 --> 01:09:12.180 Yeah, it's a low bar to compare County Line to. Yeah. Yeah. 01:09:12.180 --> 01:09:18.180 So and like just these people that are saying like, like, well, you've never really had a true experience encountering God. 01:09:18.180 --> 01:09:22.180 Like I thought that I did. I thought I had those true experiences. 01:09:22.180 --> 01:09:26.180 And like in your eyes, you would see it as a true encounter with God. 01:09:26.180 --> 01:09:32.180 And everyone around me saw the encounter with God. I don't know what I would call those things now. 01:09:32.180 --> 01:09:37.180 It was interesting. I was talking with a friend yesterday where we were saying like there was a mission trip that I was on. 01:09:37.180 --> 01:09:42.180 I remember like feeling so heavy and like just feeling the weight of all the fun me. 01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:47.180 And it was anxiety for sure. Back on it, I was having a panic attack on it and they told me it was a demon. 01:09:47.180 --> 01:09:52.180 Like I had three people talking about your saying that a demon was oppressing me and they like prayed over me. 01:09:52.180 --> 01:09:56.180 And now looking back on it, I'm like, no, that was fucking anxiety. 01:09:56.180 --> 01:09:59.180 I was having an anxiety attack. Yeah. 01:09:59.180 --> 01:10:05.180 Just like the people that are commenting on these videos, they don't like I probably went to the church that they would have loved. 01:10:05.180 --> 01:10:10.180 Like they probably would have agreed that it was a demon and all this stuff. 01:10:10.180 --> 01:10:14.180 But like you can't see that in a 60 second video. 01:10:14.180 --> 01:10:20.180 You don't know the extent of what I went through, but I'm trying to find more comments to read. 01:10:20.180 --> 01:10:23.180 This one was funny. One for Satan. 01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:33.180 I don't think I can respond to that. Possibly true. We don't know. 01:10:33.180 --> 01:10:38.180 It was one of my favorite ones. 01:10:38.180 --> 01:10:43.180 This one made me uncomfortable. God still loves you. Husband creation still calls out. 01:10:43.180 --> 01:10:47.180 I don't like the phrase husband creation. I've never heard that before. 01:10:47.180 --> 01:10:52.180 This girl said this is giving eye woo. 01:10:52.180 --> 01:10:54.180 Let me see. I'm so sorry. 01:10:54.180 --> 01:10:58.180 I wish you were around people that were true Christians so that they could give you what God is really like. 01:10:58.180 --> 01:11:00.180 God loves you. Okay. 01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:04.180 I mean, it just goes back to all the earlier stuff. 01:11:04.180 --> 01:11:10.180 Like, why did you say that? First off, yeah, feeling free doesn't mean it's right. 01:11:10.180 --> 01:11:13.180 Sin feels good. It feels pretty great. 01:11:13.180 --> 01:11:16.180 To be honest, I'm okay living. 01:11:16.180 --> 01:11:18.180 Jesus still loves you. He's calling you. 01:11:18.180 --> 01:11:22.180 He uses a still small voice most of the time. 01:11:22.180 --> 01:11:25.180 Look inside your heart, not inside the church. Christ is in your heart. 01:11:25.180 --> 01:11:28.180 He's knocking at the door. Answer. 01:11:28.180 --> 01:11:34.180 And on the last day, every knee will bow and tongue confess Jesus is Lord. 01:11:34.180 --> 01:11:40.180 Like we haven't heard all these things already. 01:11:40.180 --> 01:11:46.180 People trying to say their churches aren't like that, yet saying the same exact things that we've heard. 01:11:46.180 --> 01:11:50.180 Be careful in assuming that your happiness is the standard at which you should live. 01:11:50.180 --> 01:11:52.180 What? 01:11:52.180 --> 01:11:59.180 If you reject the gospel and you've been exposed to it, how are you ever going to get saved from once you've rejected it? 01:11:59.180 --> 01:12:04.180 Now, that's an interesting comment. I think we should talk about that one a little bit. 01:12:04.180 --> 01:12:12.180 So the premise is that you've seen the gospel, but you didn't get saved. 01:12:12.180 --> 01:12:17.180 So they're like questioning, right? It's almost like they're questioning their own beliefs more than you. 01:12:17.180 --> 01:12:21.180 I know, that's what the question... I felt like the question was supposed to be directed at me, 01:12:21.180 --> 01:12:28.180 but it was more directed at like, well, how has she been exposed to the gospel but not saved? 01:12:28.180 --> 01:12:31.180 You tell me, sir. 01:12:31.180 --> 01:12:36.180 A fundamental belief of like, if you expose them to the gospel, they'll believe, right? 01:12:36.180 --> 01:12:39.180 It might not be now, but it'll be at some point, right? 01:12:39.180 --> 01:12:42.180 For a lot of people that were saying like, I was still saved. 01:12:42.180 --> 01:12:45.180 Yeah, which like I know my parents believe that. 01:12:45.180 --> 01:12:50.180 My parents, because like I've had a conversation with my parents about my oldest brother 01:12:50.180 --> 01:12:53.180 because I asked them like, he walked away from faith and they were like, 01:12:53.180 --> 01:12:57.180 well, he was saved at one point, so he's always saved. 01:12:57.180 --> 01:13:02.180 So this is a lifetime membership. 01:13:02.180 --> 01:13:04.180 You can't cancel. 01:13:04.180 --> 01:13:09.180 You cannot cancel your subscription to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 01:13:09.180 --> 01:13:12.180 How does that make you feel? 01:13:12.180 --> 01:13:15.180 I think it's just something they say to make themselves feel better, to be quite honest. 01:13:15.180 --> 01:13:20.180 I think that they just want to feel okay about it, so it's something that they tell themselves. 01:13:20.180 --> 01:13:23.180 Better than them constantly witnessing, do you? 01:13:23.180 --> 01:13:26.180 Yes, I will take that. Yeah. You ready for more? 01:13:26.180 --> 01:13:30.180 No, we should wrap it up. 01:13:30.180 --> 01:13:32.180 Let me find one more good one. 01:13:32.180 --> 01:13:35.180 Okay, and it'll be my last one. 01:13:35.180 --> 01:13:39.180 God, some of these are so funny though. 01:13:39.180 --> 01:13:42.180 Okay, I'm sharing two because I'm sharing a funny one first. 01:13:42.180 --> 01:13:46.180 This one just says you are a very sad person. 01:13:46.180 --> 01:13:48.180 Thanks. 01:13:48.180 --> 01:13:54.180 Okay, well then the one I actually want to share says pray for her in the spirit of delusion that has captured her. 01:13:54.180 --> 01:13:57.180 She's rooted in fear and the enemy traffics in fear. 01:13:57.180 --> 01:13:59.180 Apparently I'm delusional. 01:13:59.180 --> 01:14:02.180 I'm not here beforehand. 01:14:02.180 --> 01:14:05.180 Like leaving Christianity is like getting rid of the fear. 01:14:05.180 --> 01:14:09.180 That's kind of how I feel. It gets rid of the shame and crap. 01:14:09.180 --> 01:14:10.180 Yeah. 01:14:10.180 --> 01:14:12.180 You got rid of your shame? How'd you do that? 01:14:12.180 --> 01:14:15.180 You left Christianity. Yeah, me too. 01:14:15.180 --> 01:14:17.180 There it is. 01:14:17.180 --> 01:14:21.180 How do I get rid of it? It's still here forever. 01:14:21.180 --> 01:14:25.180 That's trauma. Oh, that's just trauma. 01:14:25.180 --> 01:14:31.180 I don't know if that's better or worse. Maybe both. 01:14:31.180 --> 01:14:37.180 Oh, to wrap this up, I noticed one from the former principal of Lakewood. 01:14:37.180 --> 01:14:39.180 I'm just going to read it here. 01:14:39.180 --> 01:14:42.180 It was actually the principal at the Christian school where she attended. 01:14:42.180 --> 01:14:46.180 I'm proud that she is thinking critically and I doubt this is for attention. 01:14:46.180 --> 01:14:49.180 Do you want to talk a little bit about how that made you feel? 01:14:49.180 --> 01:14:56.180 I honestly cried when I read that comment and it had a huge impact on how I felt about the whole post. 01:14:56.180 --> 01:15:05.180 It reassured me that I was doing it for myself and that it really is healing for me to think through these things and go through these things. 01:15:05.180 --> 01:15:12.180 Having someone that really was such a prominent figure in my life, I truly looked up to Mr. Krisner. 01:15:12.180 --> 01:15:16.180 I still do, especially after him commenting that. 01:15:16.180 --> 01:15:22.180 It just proved to me that I talked about how I know not all Christians can be like that. 01:15:22.180 --> 01:15:35.180 That is the kind of response that I want when I post things like that is for people to be encouraging and to ask questions and talk with me about things and not just assume who I am as a person. 01:15:35.180 --> 01:15:46.180 But to meet me with some sort of empathy of like, I'm kind of going through some shit right now, like I'm really trying through some stuff and it sucks and it's difficult and it's hard. 01:15:46.180 --> 01:15:54.180 And to have people that were such a prominent figure at our school was really cool to have him come in and kind of like defend me. 01:15:54.180 --> 01:15:57.180 It is very cool that he was on TikTok and found you. 01:15:57.180 --> 01:16:00.180 I know. I don't even know how. 01:16:00.180 --> 01:16:06.180 The Lord works in mysterious ways. 01:16:06.180 --> 01:16:14.180 End it there. The Lord works in mysterious ways. We're done. 01:16:14.180 --> 01:16:19.180 Well, God, I don't know why I just said that. 01:16:19.180 --> 01:16:23.180 That's what we've just learned to believe. 01:16:23.180 --> 01:16:26.180 There's no such thing as coincidences. 01:16:26.180 --> 01:16:30.180 Everything is God ordained. 01:16:30.180 --> 01:16:33.180 That was all over my comments too. 01:16:33.180 --> 01:16:37.180 Alright, well, thank you for coming on again. 01:16:37.180 --> 01:16:41.180 Glad to be here. Glad to process my drama. 01:16:41.180 --> 01:16:44.180 That's what we're here for. It's what we do best. 01:16:44.180 --> 01:16:53.180 If you want to get in contact with us, please send us an email at Hey, H-E-Y, not H-A-Y, H-E-Y at HoiTransgressions.com. 01:16:53.180 --> 01:16:58.180 We'd love to hear any thoughts you might have, any encouragements, prayer requests. 01:16:58.180 --> 01:17:00.180 I'm not open for that. 01:17:00.180 --> 01:17:02.180 Oh, it's so late. I'm so tired. 01:17:02.180 --> 01:17:04.180 Good clarification. 01:17:04.180 --> 01:17:06.180 We'd love to hear from you. 01:17:06.180 --> 01:17:08.180 So please reach out. 01:17:08.180 --> 01:17:11.180 And thanks for listening. Good night and we love you. 01:17:11.180 --> 01:17:23.180 Love you. Hail Satan.