WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.360 Welcome to hallway transgressions. I'm Chris. I'm Ryan 00:03.840 --> 00:11.060 We are two private school alumni and this podcast serves to examine the worldviews of Christian pastors and teachers through a postmodern lens 00:11.960 --> 00:18.620 Trigger warning this episode discusses topics that may be controversial offensive or triggering to nature to some individuals 00:18.900 --> 00:24.640 Listen at your own risk. Hey Ryan, what's your bright spot? Oh, there's just so many to choose from 00:24.640 --> 00:31.680 I'm gonna have to go with I've been reading a lot of bleach because who has time to watch bleach 00:31.680 --> 00:33.200 I'm gonna read it 00:33.200 --> 00:37.440 And I got through one of the major arcs today 00:37.440 --> 00:43.120 So now it's like there's a whole new story to unfold. I love it. I like going into a new mark 00:43.120 --> 00:49.920 It's like it it took so long just to get to the end of like this whole sequence of battles that went on 00:49.920 --> 00:55.240 It was like a hundred chapters of just like 00:56.600 --> 01:04.820 This just like the the last part of the arc like it was all building up and then just took forever to get through the 01:05.500 --> 01:10.000 So many different battles between different people but we made it through 01:10.480 --> 01:15.520 I'm sure stuff will come back to haunt us later in this series 01:15.920 --> 01:17.920 That'll never happen. How far are you? 01:17.920 --> 01:21.440 Like halfway so 01:22.520 --> 01:27.440 So spoiler alert for those who are reading or watching bleach 01:28.640 --> 01:31.240 I got to the part where 01:32.400 --> 01:37.000 Aizen was taking over Kurokara in the Soul Society 01:37.600 --> 01:39.280 and 01:39.280 --> 01:41.840 Ichigo learned the final getsuga 01:41.840 --> 01:49.000 And so they they were able to get Aizen and now we're starting with like a year has passed and he has no 01:49.280 --> 01:51.280 Shinigami powers anymore 01:51.440 --> 01:56.520 Whatever will happen. He must just go on to living a normal life. That's got to be it 01:56.520 --> 01:58.680 That's why there's 300 more chapters left 01:59.960 --> 02:01.960 300 chapters of a normal life 02:02.200 --> 02:09.680 That was for me not for the listeners. It was just boring. Yeah, so that's where I'm at. That's pretty good. Very cool 02:09.680 --> 02:12.640 How about you? What's your bright spot? 02:12.640 --> 02:18.720 My bright spot is we got an email from a listener the other day and it was very nice and very encouraging 02:18.800 --> 02:21.480 it was from someone that had grown up in a 02:21.960 --> 02:25.800 Fundamentalist ish very strict household and it was really nice to hear that 02:26.000 --> 02:29.960 We've been able to reach out it to at least some people and they've been finding 02:30.440 --> 02:36.620 Comfort and help through our episodes because what we're here for and now I'm gonna shamelessly plug if you do want to reach out 02:36.620 --> 02:41.920 To us we have an email. Hey at hallway transgressions.com and feel free to 02:42.480 --> 02:47.100 Email almost anything you want and we'd be happy to hear from any listeners out there 02:47.100 --> 02:49.760 I know there's at least 10 of them and I appreciate everyone 02:49.800 --> 02:56.800 so the rest of this episode is going to be an interview and talk we had with a former classmate and 02:57.520 --> 02:58.920 old friend 02:58.920 --> 03:05.780 Becca from Lakewood. I really enjoyed our conversation. I thought we had a lot of good talks 03:05.780 --> 03:12.340 Beforehand and we went through an episode as well a spoiler alert on that. It wasn't fun 03:12.340 --> 03:18.220 but yeah, I think talking to Becca got me thinking a little bit more about how a 03:18.620 --> 03:21.540 lot of the teaching and Lakewood was always to 03:22.180 --> 03:29.700 Don't you have like an approved list of people to listen to and like seeking sources outside of that wasn't very kosher 03:29.700 --> 03:34.040 I think like this was like not a big realization 03:34.040 --> 03:35.860 But it was just something I was like, you know 03:35.860 --> 03:39.780 I go through your head and you're just thinking things and then spirals down 03:39.780 --> 03:43.900 It's like how people go on YouTube, but just in your brain. I got two 03:44.700 --> 03:45.660 memories 03:45.660 --> 03:47.360 growing up of 03:47.360 --> 03:49.280 people always saying like 03:49.280 --> 03:56.740 Be careful what you expose yourself to be careful what you are taking in like how based on what you are 03:57.500 --> 04:03.620 Feeding your mind it will like corrupt you of bad type of thing and I got that a lot 04:03.620 --> 04:05.020 I got 04:05.020 --> 04:09.060 When I was growing up, I had books thrown away while I was at school 04:10.060 --> 04:15.620 very limited on what I was able to watch based on this idea of 04:16.380 --> 04:24.100 You got to be careful what you are bringing in to your mind because it will affect you and in that connotation 04:24.620 --> 04:26.060 negatively and 04:26.060 --> 04:30.420 Really? I just started thinking about that and thinking like that just seems to be 04:31.300 --> 04:32.660 almost like 04:32.660 --> 04:39.940 Obvocating ignorance like don't read these types of books. Don't listen to these people don't watch these people 04:40.780 --> 04:45.860 so that you won't corrupt yourself and in theory like I 04:46.700 --> 04:48.780 Understand it like I get it 04:48.940 --> 04:56.320 But I've more come to a I'm gonna take in as much as I can so that I have a more well-rounded 04:56.320 --> 05:03.080 idea of things and not just a one-sided view of things, but yeah, it's almost like 05:03.960 --> 05:08.600 The church at least the one that I grew up in was saying be ignorant 05:08.600 --> 05:13.680 Don't expose yourself to things that might lead you astray lead you away from God and look at that 05:14.200 --> 05:16.080 They were kind of right 05:16.080 --> 05:21.540 It almost does more damage though in a way. I know I was thinking about focus on the family 05:21.540 --> 05:26.200 Actually last night I like way too late, which is never a good thing 05:26.200 --> 05:33.100 But I was thinking about how focus on the family is an organization that tries to teach parents how to raise 05:33.920 --> 05:41.640 themselves almost like you're trying to make a carbon copy perfect Christian out of another human being that you're responsible for and they sell a 05:41.640 --> 05:47.040 lot of books and tools and media they're a media powerhouse to create like a 05:48.120 --> 05:49.640 culture of 05:49.640 --> 05:58.360 I mean a fundamentalist Christians really but a culture where parents are have strict control over what's their children consume and 05:58.920 --> 06:04.920 The media that they watch in the media that they read and there's also books for the parents on how to do things 06:05.000 --> 06:08.440 But I was looking at a book the other the other night 06:08.440 --> 06:12.880 That was what you do when your child starts to question 06:12.880 --> 06:20.120 The faith and I thought it was really interesting that they create a pipeline of like you read all the early parenting books 06:20.120 --> 06:22.640 And then you read the books about what to do 06:22.800 --> 06:27.480 You know through elementary school and middle school and like how to raise your kid in a perfect Christian household 06:27.480 --> 06:30.400 And then when that doesn't work because you're you know 06:30.600 --> 06:37.360 Your kid is an independent human that has their own thoughts and feelings and attitudes about the world when that doesn't work 06:37.360 --> 06:42.120 Then you can buy this other book that tells you what to do when everything falls apart around you 06:42.120 --> 06:44.800 And it just kind of made me laugh that it was just like yeah 06:44.800 --> 06:47.920 You do all this stuff that they tell you to do and then it doesn't work 06:47.920 --> 06:50.440 And then they sell you books to do when it doesn't work 06:50.440 --> 06:54.440 And it's almost like maybe you should just like talk about what's going on with your kid 06:55.120 --> 07:01.760 It almost feels like that a lot of the parents need to do the deconstructing work so that their kids don't have to do it 07:01.760 --> 07:03.560 later really 07:03.560 --> 07:09.620 Yeah, you know what since we won't have kids will be the better parents to other people's kids 07:09.620 --> 07:16.180 Yeah, yeah, I don't tell those parents what to do. Let me lecture all these other parents and what yeah 07:19.780 --> 07:23.460 We have no ground for telling parents what to do 07:24.100 --> 07:30.580 Yeah, arguably. I don't think focus on the family has any ground to do it either, but whatever 07:30.580 --> 07:35.300 They just they just have money in mind at least we have the child's well-being in mind 07:35.300 --> 07:41.300 Yeah, I'm just trying to help a little bit. Hopefully just a tad I just don't want other people to go through the experience 07:41.300 --> 07:45.540 We had to do if they don't have to you know hey remember that movie that 07:46.060 --> 07:52.960 Made the government seem like the bad guy for trying to help children get the education that everyone has a right to no 07:53.340 --> 07:57.440 You don't remember that movie it had to do with oh you do 08:00.100 --> 08:03.100 We the people God's not dead 08:03.100 --> 08:05.100 The 08:05.340 --> 08:09.820 Parents are like we want to be able to homeschool our kids and teach them whatever the fuck we want 08:09.900 --> 08:13.420 And the government's like no we want your child to be educated 08:13.980 --> 08:21.980 And then they take the whole thing like it's the parents right to indoctrinate their child. However. They want that's right 08:21.980 --> 08:23.300 Yeah, yeah 08:23.300 --> 08:29.980 Well if we should do a miniseries on that and if the listeners want that they should reach out to us all the God's 08:29.980 --> 08:33.420 Not dead movies all of them will go through each one 08:34.060 --> 08:36.060 And with that enjoy the episode 08:37.420 --> 08:39.740 Please enjoy the episode we had with Becca 08:44.700 --> 08:47.740 Today we have with us a very special guest from 08:48.700 --> 08:51.240 Former Lakewood student Becca. Hello 08:51.860 --> 08:56.240 Welcome Becca. So you to get started. Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself? 08:56.240 --> 09:01.120 How you ended up at Lakewood how I ended up at Lakewood my parents put me there 09:02.640 --> 09:04.640 Did you go all 12 years? 09:05.120 --> 09:07.120 all the sixth grade 09:07.680 --> 09:13.320 Because my parents didn't like the sixth grade teachers at the time. So they sent me to public school for one year 09:13.840 --> 09:15.840 Whoa, I did that too 09:16.160 --> 09:23.840 My sixth grade year was wild though. I got a yahoo account without my mom knowing she found an email where I cussed to a friend 09:23.840 --> 09:25.680 Oh, no 09:25.680 --> 09:31.120 All because my computer froze when I was trying to exit out of yahoo when she got home from work 09:31.600 --> 09:35.360 So shout out to dial up internet for getting me in trouble 09:36.400 --> 09:38.080 What a snitch 09:38.080 --> 09:40.080 classic dial-up, right? 09:40.560 --> 09:46.320 Um, but yeah, so went there all but sixth grade and pre-kid and go to pre-k because I don't know 09:46.400 --> 09:50.720 I just did um, but graduated 2014. So I was a year ahead of you guys 09:50.720 --> 09:54.000 Um ryan and I were pretty good friends in high school 09:54.240 --> 09:58.960 I was one of the friends he was talking about in the previous episode when he said we all abandoned him 09:59.440 --> 10:03.760 Yeah, I abandoned him. Yep. Just had to graduate. You could have just got held back 10:05.440 --> 10:07.600 No, thanks one more year there. No 10:09.600 --> 10:11.600 I was out of there 10:11.920 --> 10:19.120 But yeah, then I went to trine though. I was at trine for three years graduated with a degree in psychology and criminal justice 10:19.120 --> 10:24.800 Um had every intention after I was doing that to like I was gonna get my masters in forensic psychology 10:24.960 --> 10:28.400 I was gonna go to law school. I had all these like lofty dreams for myself 10:28.560 --> 10:34.080 Um, and then I thought that god was calling me into ministry. Whatever you want to take that as 10:34.240 --> 10:37.120 Um, so I ended up it was so funny too 10:37.200 --> 10:40.960 Like I had a really cool internship lined up my senior year of college 10:41.120 --> 10:46.320 I was going to intern with one of our professors who was a forensic psychologist and I canceled it to 10:46.320 --> 10:53.760 Intern at county line and I hate myself for that like it was a really cool opportunity and I didn't do it 10:54.560 --> 10:55.840 Wow, yeah 10:55.840 --> 10:56.800 Um, but yeah 10:56.800 --> 11:03.120 So then I interned at county line my senior year of college and then when I graduated they offered me a job 11:03.440 --> 11:09.200 It was part-time. So I stayed I was actually there. Oh, I've ryan. I totally forgot. We worked at the movie theater together 11:09.760 --> 11:14.240 I forget who I worked with at the movie theater. There were too many liquid people there 11:14.240 --> 11:18.640 I was sick of it by the time I left. I yeah, I think all I remember is 11:20.960 --> 11:22.960 I totally forgot you worked there 11:23.520 --> 11:24.480 Yeah 11:24.480 --> 11:28.400 Yeah, you because you started like before I did and then I got a job there 11:28.480 --> 11:32.880 But so I I was at ncg for a long time. I was there 11:33.120 --> 11:37.520 I don't even know but I because I stayed part-time at the church and then part-time as a manager there 11:37.520 --> 11:45.200 But then eventually they made my job full time. And so I started out as their preteen coordinator was my official title 11:45.280 --> 11:47.440 So I was in charge of their fifth and sixth grade ministry 11:47.600 --> 11:53.520 And then they realized I should not be leading a ministry and I have much better administrative skills 11:53.600 --> 11:56.400 So I became their student ministries coordinator 11:56.560 --> 12:03.040 So I was just the basically the assistant to the junior high and high school pastors, which I was basically already doing 12:03.040 --> 12:09.520 So but yeah, so stayed there for like, I don't know three or four years. I can't remember exactly how long I was there 12:09.680 --> 12:11.200 But I don't know. Yeah 12:11.200 --> 12:16.240 Ryan I feel like you and I just crossed some paths in so many ways because like we had ncg we had school 12:16.640 --> 12:18.640 And then we had county line. Yeah 12:18.960 --> 12:21.920 there was just a thing at lakewood had its own little like 12:22.720 --> 12:27.280 Like sphere like community almost where everyone went to the same places 12:27.280 --> 12:34.880 Is everyone thought of doing the same thing so many people from lakewood went to county line so many people from lakewood worked at 12:35.340 --> 12:37.440 Ncg it was just it was something 12:38.080 --> 12:43.440 It's not a cult. They swear. It's not a cult. It's not a cult. Call it a hive mind and then it's not a cult 12:44.640 --> 12:46.800 Uh, everyone's connected to the spirit 12:47.360 --> 12:53.200 Just so you know, so they're all like it's not a hive mind the mind in that hive mind is just the holy spirit 12:53.200 --> 12:57.300 Connecting everyone together just so you know, yeah, yeah 13:00.980 --> 13:03.620 Um kind of thing there's oh yeah what i'm doing now 13:04.740 --> 13:11.620 So, uh, I lost my train of thought because we started talking about a hive mind of a cult, uh, and the holy spirit stranger things 13:13.300 --> 13:16.500 Yeah, clearly that's what's on my mind is stranger things. Uh, 13:16.500 --> 13:23.220 Uh, I I was at county line for like three or four years got super burnt out super tired of ministry 13:23.460 --> 13:29.620 Really just kind of hated what I was doing the students were like the only aspect of it that I liked because I felt like they needed me 13:29.940 --> 13:34.740 Um, especially the lakewood kids that were there. I felt like needed me. Um, and then 13:35.380 --> 13:42.660 Left there in 2020 mid pandemic. I left I think and went to allen county community corrections 13:42.660 --> 13:49.140 Also known as home detention. Um, I was a dispatcher there for our home detention officers as well as I monitored people 13:49.460 --> 13:54.900 That were on gps. So I stared it basically I stared at google maps all day and like points on a map 13:55.300 --> 13:59.300 Um, and then now I am at the volunteer lawyer program 13:59.460 --> 14:03.620 So my official title is volunteer coordinator and assistant executive director 14:03.780 --> 14:09.060 So I do just a lot of different stuff for them, but i'm five weeks in and I love it. Yeah, that's me 14:09.060 --> 14:13.940 So do you want to talk a little bit about your beliefs during your time at lakewood? 14:15.620 --> 14:16.980 Oh 14:16.980 --> 14:24.420 Let's get into it. I guess yeah, I mean pretty much whatever lakewood believed I believed I was super heavily 14:25.040 --> 14:29.540 Entrenched I feel like um, I was going on mission trips. I was leading chapels 14:29.700 --> 14:36.260 I was leading bible studies like I had I was your very stereotypical like high school christian kid 14:36.260 --> 14:41.620 It's so funny too because I tell my friends that like I was probably the golden child up until 14:41.860 --> 14:46.500 I left the church because like like working for the church anyways, because I was like, I don't know 14:46.660 --> 14:50.580 I was always just that kid that was super strong in their beliefs and 14:51.300 --> 14:56.180 I had my opinions and like I don't know. I believed everything they told me 14:56.180 --> 15:00.340 I didn't really question it. I just knew that I was raised in faith and 15:00.340 --> 15:07.300 That's what I was supposed to do and I think I just like got some sort of sense of satisfaction of like being a leader 15:07.540 --> 15:14.360 In those spectrums and I think I think that's really more what like drew me to faith was like the leadership opportunities 15:14.820 --> 15:17.880 Because I had people like giving me a lot of responsibilities 15:18.580 --> 15:22.740 And I liked that people trusted me and were willing to like let me lead things 15:22.900 --> 15:27.700 But I didn't really know what I was doing and I was kind of just like flying by the seat of my pants 15:27.700 --> 15:32.260 And I was very good at memorization like i'm freakishly good at memorization 15:32.500 --> 15:37.460 So I think faith at lakewood was easy for me because I just regurgitated whatever answer 15:37.540 --> 15:40.980 I thought they expected from me. So these tests were easy for you, too 15:41.700 --> 15:43.700 Oh so easy 15:44.260 --> 15:50.900 Yeah, it was like it was you me and some other person that got 100 on his final. He like kept track of it 15:51.460 --> 15:56.900 Yeah, and it wasn't because I actually like cared about what I was studying. I'm just really good at memorization 15:56.900 --> 16:02.340 So like I would I you should see the stack of flashcards that I made when I was in college 16:02.420 --> 16:08.340 Like also mr d's class did not compare to if anyone that ever listens to this went to trine 16:08.500 --> 16:14.260 There's this psychology professor. Dr. blaze who his classes were the hardest classes i've ever taken in my life 16:14.500 --> 16:21.560 And it was all just like pure memorization. So like even that class I did really well in because it's just straight memorization 16:21.560 --> 16:28.920 Like I just you give me a line. I could have been an actor if I wasn't actually bad at acting because I can regurgitate whatever you 16:30.360 --> 16:33.720 All right, i'm gonna pull up a list of fallacies. You're gonna tell me what they are 16:34.360 --> 16:36.360 Okay 16:36.760 --> 16:39.000 It's memorize and trash it 16:40.840 --> 16:47.480 It's not memorize my memorization is not memorized and then keep it in like a computer bank in my brain it's 16:48.180 --> 16:50.180 Memorize and okay i'm done with this move on 16:50.180 --> 16:52.820 Okay, once you write it down on the test, it's gone 16:53.460 --> 16:56.260 Oh for sure. Absolutely just disappeared 16:57.220 --> 17:02.580 That's funny. I just I always remember everything that anyone ever tells me and it's it's a burden 17:03.540 --> 17:06.100 Oh, poor chris has a wonderful memory 17:06.660 --> 17:10.500 It's it's when I listen to podcasts like these terrible podcasts 17:11.140 --> 17:16.100 And like I just remember everything anyone has ever said and you know, it weighs on me 17:16.100 --> 17:22.820 A lot. I don't know. That's kind of amazing. I forget everything everyone tells me. So that's a blessing. It's really nice 17:25.620 --> 17:30.740 I love being able to just take anything that anyone says and just you know, forget about it at will 17:32.180 --> 17:36.820 I love it must be nice. It really is. It's the key to happiness for me 17:36.820 --> 17:44.180 So becca how did the uh slave auction event make you feel oh my god 17:45.940 --> 17:50.660 Did you write this question when I told you that i've been talking about it with people yep 17:52.260 --> 17:53.860 Um 17:53.860 --> 17:55.860 This it's so funny because this actually came up 17:55.940 --> 18:00.660 So my oldest brother and I we just like have been texting back and forth a lot recently 18:00.660 --> 18:04.740 So he's um atheist I believe I don't want to like assume what his beliefs are 18:04.740 --> 18:07.540 But last time I talked to him and he like put a label on it 18:07.620 --> 18:13.300 I think that's where he was but uh him and I were talking about just like every now and then i'll text him and just be 18:13.300 --> 18:17.540 Like remember when like we did this like remember when like we did this and we were having a conversation 18:17.540 --> 18:22.180 He just goes do you remember the junior senior slave auction and I said, oh my god 18:22.900 --> 18:29.620 Yes, and it was just this realization that like I didn't even question that when I was in high school 18:29.620 --> 18:35.860 I did not even think about how how horrific this was like it's so horrible that we did this 18:35.940 --> 18:39.460 Which like for anyone listening that doesn't know what the junior senior slave auction was 18:39.680 --> 18:45.780 basically it was one of the fundraising things that the junior and senior class would get to do and 18:46.100 --> 18:52.100 Like I remember it just being like the biggest fundraising opportunity you had like if you did that fundraiser 18:52.260 --> 18:54.740 You made you raked in so much money and 18:54.740 --> 19:01.480 And literally it was the students from the classes that were raising the money would get auctioned off to people in the crowd 19:01.720 --> 19:09.000 Who would literally we had an actual auctioneer like come in do the auction an auctionist office human beings 19:09.160 --> 19:13.400 And we would have to like go and do whatever they wanted for like a day 19:13.560 --> 19:20.200 And I was like, we are literally commercializing slavery like like what I still can't wrap my head around it 19:20.600 --> 19:21.960 like 19:21.960 --> 19:27.400 I don't know if it would have been worse if they had at least like named it something else if that would have made it 19:27.400 --> 19:29.400 Any better? Oh, they did 19:29.400 --> 19:31.400 They what did they start calling it? 19:31.480 --> 19:33.480 the the servant auction 19:34.440 --> 19:36.440 That is just as bad 19:36.680 --> 19:37.960 Yeah 19:37.960 --> 19:43.400 They still do it. They still do it. They renamed it. Yep. They renamed it again. Just kidding me 19:43.800 --> 19:49.080 No, it's still the servant auction. They still do it. I just confirmed again recently to make sure 19:49.080 --> 19:51.640 And oh, you know, they still do it 19:52.200 --> 19:56.200 How can anyone get away with this like you you're literally? 19:57.760 --> 20:05.720 Trivializing an entire people groups horrific struggle and using it to raise money for your junior senior banquet 20:07.800 --> 20:09.800 Like what I 20:11.000 --> 20:13.240 How does no one see a problem with this I 20:13.240 --> 20:18.600 Don't I don't know what I do know is that they do the same thing with slavery in the bible 20:18.920 --> 20:24.600 They just say that it's actually not slavery. It was being servants to pay off debt, which is not true 20:25.160 --> 20:27.160 Indentured service. It was pretty horrific 20:27.640 --> 20:30.520 Slavery is just bad. I don't know if you guys know this but 20:31.480 --> 20:35.240 Slavery is not good. I didn't know wow. I'm glad you told me 20:35.720 --> 20:37.320 I just don't understand too 20:37.320 --> 20:43.560 Like why people are so set on just like skimming over it like slavery freaking happened 20:43.560 --> 20:49.880 Why are we pretending and trying to put it in this like nice little box with a bow on it and be like yeah 20:49.880 --> 20:53.800 Let's happen. But like it's okay now like no, it's not freaking okay 20:54.360 --> 20:56.840 Like there's so much systemic racism 20:56.840 --> 21:01.880 There's so many systemic problems because of slavery regardless of what you want to call it 21:01.880 --> 21:04.200 Whether it's servant hood or slavery 21:04.200 --> 21:11.560 It's freaking slavery and I feel like christians will just want to like wash their hands of everything and not take any accountability 21:12.040 --> 21:16.520 For the fact that like christians were literally the ones like leading the slave trade 21:17.320 --> 21:24.520 And we just want to wipe our hands of accountability and we change one word in a slave auction to a servant auction 21:24.520 --> 21:28.680 And it makes it okay like no freaking doesn't uh, that makes me so mad that they still do it 21:28.680 --> 21:32.120 I was hopeful that maybe they wouldn't but that makes me upset that they still do it 21:32.120 --> 21:38.280 Yeah, it's really bad. It's awful. You have too high views of like what it sounds like 21:40.040 --> 21:46.600 I'm just slightly hopeful that like maybe there's been some growth whatsoever, but apparently not 21:47.560 --> 21:55.240 No, no growth. I listened to their podcast. No growth. That's fair. I listened to one episode and that was enough for me 21:55.240 --> 22:01.880 Yeah, um, do you want to tell any more about your deconstructing story where you stand now 22:02.920 --> 22:04.360 Great question 22:04.360 --> 22:09.000 Well, no, it's just funny because I I was texting this is a conversation 22:09.000 --> 22:13.800 I've just been like continuing with like so many different people because I don't know that's kind of how I started my 22:13.960 --> 22:18.200 deconstruction journey when it really was just like having conversations with people because 22:18.760 --> 22:20.280 It's so funny when I was in high school 22:20.280 --> 22:26.680 I just like I remember going to of all places a fun concert and they have these shirts that said 22:26.680 --> 22:32.840 It's all fun and gay till someone loses their rights and I was like 15 or 16 when I saw those shirts and I was like 22:32.840 --> 22:37.560 Yeah, but then I'm like, I'm not supposed to think that it's like I'm not supposed to agree with that 22:37.560 --> 22:39.800 But like yeah, like I do agree with that 22:39.800 --> 22:45.800 And so just like I think my deconstruction journey whether I knew it or not like started when I was in high school 22:45.800 --> 22:50.520 And I just like had all these questions inside of me that I just kind of like buried under the like 22:50.920 --> 22:54.360 regurgitation of what I knew I was supposed to like answer stuff as 22:54.920 --> 23:01.960 And so I think I've always had these thoughts in my head of like I do affirm the lgbtq community 23:01.960 --> 23:08.040 And like I I don't know if I agree with everything that they're telling me in school and at church and 23:08.760 --> 23:12.360 Especially my last year leading a group at Cal Polytechnic 23:12.360 --> 23:16.200 Um, especially my last year leading a group at county line 23:16.360 --> 23:23.320 Um, it was really hard for me to tell the kids what they wanted me to tell them while holding a very different 23:23.480 --> 23:29.000 Belief in my own mind because I was starting to process through maybe I don't believe that 23:29.240 --> 23:30.840 Maybe I don't agree with that 23:30.840 --> 23:36.680 And you know, it was especially hard for me to wrap my brain around the fact that my boyfriend and I wanted to move in 23:36.760 --> 23:41.800 Together and when I was working there, I thought I could I could probably lose my job if we moved in together 23:41.800 --> 23:43.800 I was like that's kind of messed up 23:44.520 --> 23:47.720 I shouldn't be able to lose my job just because my boyfriend and I want to move in together 23:47.800 --> 23:52.200 Um, and so I think it was just a lot of questions and conversations 23:52.280 --> 23:56.520 I was having with myself of like I don't I don't understand this. I don't get this and 23:57.080 --> 24:00.200 This year like probably only a few months ago 24:00.360 --> 24:04.680 I came to terms with the fact that I don't want to go to a physical church anymore 24:04.760 --> 24:10.360 And I felt a lot of guilt about that for a long time and have only recently just been okay with I you know 24:10.360 --> 24:16.040 I don't want to go back to a physical church building and I don't necessarily know what I believe and i'm okay with that 24:16.120 --> 24:22.120 I don't have a name for what I believe. I don't know at all what I believe right now 24:22.200 --> 24:27.320 I've kind of i'm kind of at the point where I know what I don't believe and what I don't agree with and i'm going 24:27.320 --> 24:32.520 To work my way up from there. Yeah, just don't get too comfortable once you get set with some beliefs 24:32.520 --> 24:34.520 They're going to change again. That's fine 24:34.520 --> 24:39.640 And once you start they just get they just keep evolving it just never ends 24:40.920 --> 24:46.600 It's exhausting. I just need like a base right now. I need a baseline. It's never gonna happen. Sorry 24:47.000 --> 24:49.880 Yeah, the world isn't uh black and white. So 24:50.520 --> 24:52.760 Once you lose that binary it gets 24:53.560 --> 24:54.440 weird 24:54.440 --> 25:01.240 It's so funny because I think like especially lgbtq rights like it's been the easiest thing for me to understand 25:01.240 --> 25:07.080 Like even when I was identifying as christian, I it was still so easy for me to just be like yeah 25:07.080 --> 25:09.080 I affirm that it like it just makes sense 25:09.240 --> 25:10.840 and so just 25:10.840 --> 25:13.000 like I it's so funny to me because I 25:13.320 --> 25:18.040 Feel like i've been doing this for a long time of just getting to this point of what the heck do I believe? 25:18.200 --> 25:23.400 Because i've had all these thoughts for such a long time and I just don't think i've ever had a space 25:23.560 --> 25:25.640 Where I could voice them and it'd be normal 25:25.640 --> 25:32.920 Uh, so I I think that was that was really hard too, especially working at the church of just having to like sit there 25:33.080 --> 25:38.040 and listen to them say all these things and all these thoughts and opinions and 25:38.520 --> 25:43.640 Not feeling like there was space for me to voice how I felt and just feeling kind of silenced 25:43.800 --> 25:46.760 There was another girl that I worked with she was there at the same time 25:46.920 --> 25:50.280 And she's the same age as me and we like really bonded over that 25:50.280 --> 25:57.800 We would actually go to lunch every tuesday and just complain about how frustrated we were about just the politics of the place 25:57.800 --> 25:59.800 we were working and um 26:00.120 --> 26:05.080 I think that too that like started that was my first space where I could talk about these things 26:05.240 --> 26:11.800 and so just that has gradually grown more and more and having space to question space to wonder about things and um, 26:12.040 --> 26:17.160 I think has been pivotal for my deconstruction journey. It's still a journey. I'm still on it. I 26:17.160 --> 26:20.440 I yeah, i've got a long way a long ways to go for sure 26:21.000 --> 26:23.000 um, my poor boyfriend i'm just like 26:23.880 --> 26:28.680 Viewing things at him. I made him listen to you guys's podcast as we were like driving in the car 26:29.320 --> 26:32.520 And I was like, I just i'm reliving my high school trauma. It's fine 26:33.880 --> 26:40.600 I gotta work through this. Okay, so it's just been it's been interesting to kind of just take the journey on my own. So 26:41.400 --> 26:43.400 Yeah, thanks for sharing 26:43.480 --> 26:45.240 Hey, no problem 26:45.240 --> 26:50.200 I told you i'm an open book. I pretty much talk about anything. I think everyone that knows me knows that though 26:51.160 --> 26:55.480 Good, we'll exploit that chris doesn't let's bust out the dear doug letters 26:56.440 --> 27:01.080 No, no, no, no, no special episodes. No chris said he would never 27:02.520 --> 27:03.320 I 27:03.320 --> 27:06.360 Dear doug haunts me. I had one other question 27:07.080 --> 27:13.960 Of if liquid how liquid harmed you but I think we got that dealt with so how didn't they? 27:13.960 --> 27:15.400 Yeah 27:15.400 --> 27:16.600 Yeah 27:16.600 --> 27:20.360 No, I will say like I there are aspects of liquid that I 27:20.900 --> 27:26.280 Appreciate because I feel like I feel like I got some of my critical thinking from being there 27:26.440 --> 27:30.520 Like I think as i've looked back and been like what the fuck are they teaching me? 27:31.320 --> 27:36.920 Like I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but just having the that's what i'm looking for 27:37.160 --> 27:42.200 I just I like having the afterthought to look back at what they were teaching me and actually questioning it 27:42.200 --> 27:47.320 I think somehow that education tied into me being able to do that. I don't know but 27:47.800 --> 27:51.160 Yeah, yeah, I will we're gonna talk later in this episode 27:51.880 --> 27:54.600 But I have the same thoughts too as well. It was like 27:55.240 --> 27:58.520 When you it gave me a framework of what? 27:59.080 --> 28:05.080 Christians believe so when I looked back later, it was like oh, here's all the reasons that this doesn't work 28:05.080 --> 28:12.840 Like it gave me a deeper understanding of Christianity and then when you look back with like a postmodern or other lens 28:12.840 --> 28:17.160 You can be like, oh like once you leave Christianity, it's harder to 28:18.040 --> 28:22.200 Believe in it like all the arguments make sense when you're inside Christianity 28:22.680 --> 28:27.080 But when you step outside of it and look back you get in the same place of like 28:27.240 --> 28:30.960 The lens they use on every other religion basically 28:30.960 --> 28:34.960 Yeah, which is most of this upcoming episode that we're gonna talk about so 28:37.280 --> 28:41.840 Neat super neat. Well, yeah, you got anything right? 28:43.280 --> 28:45.680 Uh depression no 28:52.560 --> 28:55.600 I'm gonna cut that somewhere. It's more like apathy 28:58.240 --> 29:00.240 That's funny 29:00.240 --> 29:01.840 well 29:01.840 --> 29:03.840 We're glad to have you becca you've 29:04.400 --> 29:06.400 I just want that I want that clip 29:10.880 --> 29:12.880 You got anything right 29:14.080 --> 29:16.080 Me too, man 29:18.400 --> 29:20.080 Yeah, it doesn't feel good 29:20.080 --> 29:23.040 It's fine. This is how we get our trauma out. We just 29:23.760 --> 29:27.120 Oh, I laugh through all like uncomfortable topics 29:27.120 --> 29:34.640 Like it's real bad. I can't have a serious conversation without giggling. I maybe blame liquid for that 29:36.960 --> 29:38.960 Ah, that's how it harmed you 29:39.120 --> 29:42.100 That's how it harmed me. I can't have a freaking serious conversation 29:43.680 --> 29:50.480 I just stopped feeling things in like senior year. Well, that's probably the drugs right probably the best thing that ever happened 29:51.840 --> 29:54.800 I think I just faked my way the whole time. Oh 29:54.800 --> 29:56.400 No 29:56.400 --> 30:01.120 For me, I guess it didn't feel as much like I was faking 30:01.600 --> 30:06.160 But just kind of just going along with things just kind of riding it out 30:06.880 --> 30:11.760 More of an observer. It felt like even though I was like on stages and stuff. I just felt like I was just 30:12.320 --> 30:16.800 Watching everything happen. Yeah, you guys were both on worship team, weren't you? 30:16.800 --> 30:24.320 I wasn't not there. I was I didn't get involved in worship until I was in college when I learned I could actually sing 30:25.360 --> 30:27.120 Yay 30:27.120 --> 30:32.880 Now I don't do anything with it. So me neither. I gave up music you can sing our intro you're gonna do our intro 30:33.840 --> 30:35.840 Do you have an intro? No 30:36.880 --> 30:38.880 Make it up right now 30:40.480 --> 30:44.640 One of my one of my favorite youtubers her intro was literally her just like making sounds 30:44.640 --> 30:50.880 It was just like she she did it every single episode like just saying it herself 30:51.840 --> 30:53.520 That's funny 30:53.520 --> 30:57.920 We just uh jump into it and then I just randomly cut the episode off when we're done and 30:58.560 --> 31:00.480 Yep, we don't really have 31:00.480 --> 31:04.560 A whole process really we got a small one and then we just talk 31:05.120 --> 31:09.920 That's fine. And then chris gets to decide what stays in and what goes yeah, I have all the power 31:10.480 --> 31:12.480 Exactly. It's your podcast 31:12.480 --> 31:15.360 And yes, and you're all living in it. All right 31:16.880 --> 31:19.120 Let's get this over with this the worst part 31:19.200 --> 31:19.760 Yeah 31:19.760 --> 31:25.920 that that episode was like I I listened to your entire episode on just how they handle just 31:26.640 --> 31:32.160 really just the entire gender spectrum and sexuality and I just 31:33.040 --> 31:40.400 It hurt to relive everything that they told us and it hurt to think about the people that were probably sitting in that room 31:40.400 --> 31:43.360 Who were somewhere on that spectrum? 31:44.080 --> 31:50.800 And having to hear people just tell them that they're sinners like that breaks my heart to think about that's why we 31:50.880 --> 31:54.000 that's why we started the podcast for accountability to 31:55.040 --> 31:55.760 the 31:55.760 --> 31:58.160 people in charge but also to like reach out to 31:58.320 --> 32:04.480 Hopefully any students or former students and like give them a safe place to like understand that not everyone thinks that way 32:04.480 --> 32:10.400 Yeah, I had a former student that wanted to meet with me and she told me she was like, you know 32:10.400 --> 32:17.360 I'm having some like homosexual thoughts and I think I gave her just the most like unexpected response because I was like 32:17.360 --> 32:21.360 Okay, let's like talk about it. Like I was like how how have you like explored your sexuality? 32:21.360 --> 32:24.720 Like do you think like are you attracted to women? 32:24.720 --> 32:30.320 Like are you attracted to like literally just started peppering her with like all these questions of like let's talk about sexuality 32:30.320 --> 32:34.240 Like I think completely threw her for a loop because it wasn't what she was expecting 32:34.880 --> 32:41.360 But and i'm just like why can't those be the kind of conversations that you have with the student instead of being like 32:41.360 --> 32:46.960 You're a horrible human being and like they're already in a place where they're gonna feel terrible 32:46.960 --> 32:52.080 Because they're being told that who they are is wrong, which it's not and I think that was like also the first thing 32:52.080 --> 32:55.200 I said to her I was like that's okay. I said, that's fine. That's normal 32:55.200 --> 32:58.000 I said, it's normal have thoughts about other girls like that's totally fine 32:58.000 --> 33:03.280 And just that was never something that anyone at lakewood would ever hear like it would 33:03.760 --> 33:07.600 It would never be affirmed in any way shape or form not at all 33:07.600 --> 33:11.280 All I did in my student ministry I was a part of was 33:11.280 --> 33:17.280 combated toxic masculinity by painting my nails and have all these like high schoolers like asking me 33:17.280 --> 33:22.080 Why are your nails painted? One kid literally was like, let me wipe those off. Like i'm gonna get some hand sanitizer 33:22.080 --> 33:25.600 I'm gonna take that nail polish off of you. It's just like messed up 33:25.600 --> 33:32.000 Yeah, I remember like sorry now i'm just thinking about like my experiences in student ministry like 33:32.000 --> 33:38.000 Nope, that's what it's for. So go for it. I remember uh, we it was during the election 33:38.000 --> 33:42.640 Everything was happening and we had um, I don't even remember what we were talking about that night 33:42.640 --> 33:47.600 But everyone was so heated because the election was happening and we were like waiting for the results and all that 33:47.600 --> 33:53.520 And so we got into our small group and there was one student that was just like going to the bathroom 33:53.520 --> 33:59.040 There was one student that was just like going off about the election results or something like that 33:59.040 --> 34:04.400 I don't know and I just straight up stood up and I was like, you know what guys I voted for biden 34:04.960 --> 34:07.680 I was just like and I don't feel bad about it 34:07.840 --> 34:12.480 And I don't feel like i'm a bad christian for voting for biden and I was like and you guys need to hear it 34:12.560 --> 34:17.680 That more people can vote democrat and still be a christian like that's a thing that happens 34:17.680 --> 34:23.680 It's and just like I think I spent my time in student ministry just like trying to be 34:24.080 --> 34:31.440 The opposite side of the spectrum christian that I could possibly be so that these students don't just become these 34:31.660 --> 34:39.600 cookie-cutter christians that they actually stop and maybe think about why why they're like saying these things why they're doing these things 34:39.680 --> 34:43.440 But I don't know if I made any difference whatsoever, but I tried 34:43.440 --> 34:48.560 I hope you did I would try to do the same thing. So it was in smaller ways 34:48.640 --> 34:54.480 I always felt isolated during like worship times and whatnot when I was in the crowd like in the congregation because 34:54.880 --> 35:02.080 They make it seem like you have to like raise your hands or like do something youth ministries more like let's jump around and dance 35:02.080 --> 35:03.760 And end quotes have fun 35:03.760 --> 35:11.040 And so I was the leader that just wouldn't sing just stood there and read the words that were on the screen during like the 35:11.040 --> 35:14.960 The music portions of the ours were on sunday nights 35:15.680 --> 35:19.920 But I would try to make it seem like okay that you don't feel like you 35:20.320 --> 35:24.240 Have to sing or have to raise your hands to be a good christian 35:25.280 --> 35:31.600 That's what like just looking back on everything like my time at lakewood my time at the church at the church 35:31.600 --> 35:36.080 I felt a little bit more freedom to kind of believe a little bit differently 35:36.160 --> 35:39.200 But I didn't feel like I could speak out about it. I didn't feel like I could 35:39.200 --> 35:44.640 Even just like I didn't feel like I could post that like I went to a bar or anything on my social media because 35:44.800 --> 35:47.280 I had students following me and that sort of thing and 35:47.760 --> 35:49.520 Just like looking back on all of it 35:49.520 --> 35:55.440 I just felt like they were trying so hard to shove me into a bot and like that is the last thing 35:55.600 --> 35:58.880 Anyone should try to do to me because I will burn that box to the ground 35:59.600 --> 36:05.120 That is just not the type of human being that I am and I think I struggled for a long time of wanting 36:05.120 --> 36:11.360 I think eventually I wanted to fit in that box when I was at lakewood. I wanted everyone to see that box, but then 36:12.160 --> 36:17.520 It got too small and I was like fuck this i'm out. I can't do this anymore. I don't agree with this 36:17.520 --> 36:21.040 I don't believe this and I think especially with christianity 36:21.040 --> 36:27.360 I don't think it has to be this cookie cutter thing of you have to believe these certain things to be a christian 36:27.840 --> 36:31.300 Uh that there's a podcast I follow called the new evangelicals 36:31.300 --> 36:40.020 And it's just been like opening my eyes a ton to just how different people see christianity and how different people practice their faith 36:40.740 --> 36:44.260 And how it looks so different for every person? 36:45.060 --> 36:51.780 And that was never a faith that was never a version of christianity that was presented to me that I could truly 36:51.940 --> 36:58.340 You know see things differently and that was okay and that there was there's space for those beliefs because growing up 36:58.340 --> 37:01.300 I was told if you agree with these things you're wrong 37:01.460 --> 37:08.020 The bible says that it's wrong and you can't have a different interpretation of the bible because there is only one interpretation of the bible 37:08.180 --> 37:14.520 And like I think that messed me up because I was like, how can how can there only be one interpretation? 37:15.220 --> 37:18.980 like how can I I just was filled with all these questions because 37:19.300 --> 37:25.540 They I don't know. They just are so hard pressed to be like check this box check this box and check this box 37:25.540 --> 37:29.060 But christianity is not a checklist, but you gotta check all these boxes 37:32.340 --> 37:34.500 I don't know. That's my soap box 37:35.940 --> 37:43.380 Yeah, I think one of the last times before I quit being a volunteer at the student ministry was when I told the pastor 37:43.460 --> 37:50.900 like it was me and the youth pastor in charge of a group of juniors and seniors for like small groups and 37:50.900 --> 37:56.180 And he was always like wanting me to speak more and I ended up telling him 37:56.180 --> 37:56.580 I was like 37:56.580 --> 37:58.900 I just feel like I have to be quiet because my beliefs are just 37:59.300 --> 38:01.220 So in contrast to a lot of the stuff here 38:01.220 --> 38:07.700 And I just don't think you would appreciate my thoughts or their parents would appreciate my thoughts being told to them which led to 38:08.260 --> 38:13.540 uh the youth pastor and his wife grilling me on my beliefs asking me what I believed in like 38:13.940 --> 38:18.420 Arguing with me over these beliefs. I was like this wasn't the point of the conversation 38:18.420 --> 38:22.100 Like I was saying like this probably isn't gonna work out the way it is 38:22.100 --> 38:26.340 Like I don't feel safe to speak here like what are we gonna do about it? 38:26.340 --> 38:32.180 But no, they just made it worse by arguing against the beliefs. I had no intention of bringing up 38:32.500 --> 38:34.020 That's why I left 38:34.020 --> 38:40.020 Well, and I I don't understand why they try to make faith so public like like 38:40.500 --> 38:45.780 We have to know what you believe and we have to know what your views are and it's like jesus wouldn't be doing this 38:45.780 --> 38:50.660 Jesus doesn't care at all what my view is on these specific things 38:50.820 --> 38:55.540 Jesus just cares that like i'm a human being and he wants to have a conversation with me 38:55.700 --> 39:00.980 He's not gonna sit there and grill me about my beliefs and how they're incorrect and tell me to fix it 39:01.060 --> 39:03.060 Or i'm gonna have to leave like 39:03.460 --> 39:05.060 you know 39:05.060 --> 39:06.500 that sounds like 39:06.500 --> 39:09.700 A certain set of people that was mentioned in the bible 39:10.500 --> 39:13.700 Oh, I tell people all the time that we're living in the time of the fair 39:13.700 --> 39:14.900 Yeah 39:14.900 --> 39:16.260 Yeah 39:16.260 --> 39:18.100 the den of vipers 39:18.100 --> 39:25.620 Like christian christian nationalists, especially our freaking pharisees and sadducees and i'm still over them 39:25.940 --> 39:27.940 but I find them entertaining 39:28.420 --> 39:29.860 I've actually 39:29.860 --> 39:36.020 I've told people a couple of times that I was like when you read the when you're sitting here like spouting scripture at me 39:36.020 --> 39:38.020 when you go back and you read the 39:38.020 --> 39:44.420 Scripture like on jesus talking to the pharisees does it feel like he's talking to you because it should yeah 39:44.640 --> 39:46.100 probably 39:46.100 --> 39:49.700 No, they're always gonna put theirself in the the character of jesus 39:50.740 --> 39:52.740 Because jesus was so aggressive 39:54.420 --> 39:58.660 Or if you go to the gospel of thomas when he murdered that child 39:59.540 --> 40:01.540 What a great book 40:02.020 --> 40:06.500 I love hearing about child jesus murdering people. Should we talk about that? 40:06.500 --> 40:11.460 But I want to put that on a future episode. I want to talk about the infancy gospel of thomas 40:12.900 --> 40:17.860 Hey, that wasn't included in the council of leo de cs. However, you say it so 40:18.820 --> 40:22.580 It's it's my canon now, so it's not a real scripture 40:23.620 --> 40:24.660 Yeah 40:24.660 --> 40:27.620 But the fact that it exists causes some questions 40:28.420 --> 40:30.420 Yeah, like why how? 40:31.140 --> 40:35.460 There you go. That's ryan. That's my one fact that I memorized that I kept the council of 40:35.460 --> 40:38.520 The council of leo de cia or do you mean nicaea? 40:39.240 --> 40:45.080 I don't know. There was a council of leo de cia though. Yeah, there was i'm pretty sure you mean council of nicaea 40:45.640 --> 40:51.560 I forget I I kind of forgot church history even though that was like my entire college career 40:52.280 --> 40:55.720 I have told people so many times too that like when I went to college 40:55.720 --> 41:05.900 I didn't even I struggled in biology class because I wasn't taught evolution, but I was taught the council of leo de cia 41:06.040 --> 41:13.640 Sick great great great facts. I learned guys. Yeah, and jeremiah 29 11 is taken out of context 41:14.680 --> 41:17.400 That and oh there was another one that he always heard 41:18.040 --> 41:19.400 I don't know 41:19.400 --> 41:21.640 Yeah, what was another one of these shticks? 41:21.640 --> 41:24.920 He never answered where the planets are around that's for sure 41:26.200 --> 41:32.840 He also told us not to believe him and to do our own research but then gets angry when we don't believe him I my 41:33.560 --> 41:38.620 This the thing that haunts me the most is the time we were learning about predestination 41:39.320 --> 41:45.320 And arminianism like like free will and I just remember his whole presentation this stuck with me 41:45.320 --> 41:50.360 This is probably also part of my deconstruction journey because I was so pissed off about it because he 41:50.360 --> 41:56.200 Gave this whole presentation on predestination and all this proof and he before he like started teaching it 41:56.200 --> 42:01.800 He was like i'm gonna present both sides and like give space for you to like determine and I was like, ah like cool 42:01.800 --> 42:08.060 Like you're gonna let us determine for ourselves what's true and he gave this entire presentation on predestination 42:08.600 --> 42:15.100 And the very end of it was one slide that gave the biblical support for free will just one 42:15.100 --> 42:20.460 Slide in this like 15 point like 15 page powerpoint 14 other slides were dedicated to 42:21.080 --> 42:26.780 Predestination and one slide was dedicated to free will and I was like, all right, so you're not slanted at all 42:27.820 --> 42:32.700 Like cool and I just I feel like that's how it is with everything that liquid does 42:32.700 --> 42:36.700 They're like we're gonna like let you determine and figure this out for yourself 42:36.700 --> 42:40.300 But we're gonna heavily influence you in this one direction 42:40.300 --> 42:46.060 Very specifically, but also if you choose the other side you're wrong, but we'll let you decide for yourself 42:46.700 --> 42:53.420 Not even it's not even you're wrong. It's a you burn in hell like the stakes were so high for everything, right? 42:54.220 --> 42:59.100 That in itself is so traumatizing as a child trying to like 42:59.660 --> 43:05.500 People just became christians. They came forward raised their hands because they were just afraid of hell because 43:05.500 --> 43:11.260 You're telling me i'm gonna burn in hell unless I say this one prayer. Okay, cool. I'll say the prayer like 43:13.100 --> 43:18.380 Gosh I have so many problems with my upbringing you want my paper I wrote on hell 43:19.100 --> 43:20.300 No 43:20.300 --> 43:21.500 Chris read it 43:21.500 --> 43:23.500 That's pretty good 43:24.540 --> 43:26.540 It was basically that it doesn't exist 43:27.260 --> 43:33.180 Yeah, I don't I don't know what I believe so don't ask me because I don't know do you still 43:33.180 --> 43:35.180 Consider yourself a christian then 43:36.460 --> 43:41.420 I don't know. I think i'm having a hard time like fully letting it go just because of like 43:41.820 --> 43:46.540 How I was raised and how I don't know just how far into it I got because I also 43:46.860 --> 43:52.940 Like i've seen I've seen christianity do good and i've seen people in faith like do 43:53.500 --> 44:00.140 Really amazing things and I also feel like I have seen god work in like certain areas of my life 44:00.140 --> 44:06.220 But I don't i'm just having a really hard time coming to terms with the christianity that I was raised with 44:06.220 --> 44:09.660 So, I don't know. I don't know what I would consider myself 44:09.660 --> 44:14.860 But I I think i'm I think I lean more towards somewhere where I'll I'll still land 44:15.180 --> 44:19.420 With some sort of faith in god because I think giving that up is really hard for me 44:19.420 --> 44:26.380 But I just I wish christianity was different. I just I wish I wish people were more like jesus, I guess 44:26.380 --> 44:32.220 Uh, because like I I really do think that like the work that jesus did on earth was so impactful 44:32.220 --> 44:35.020 And I would love to get to hang out with jesus 44:35.020 --> 44:41.820 But the way that i'm seeing christians treat people is so far from who I thought jesus was 44:41.820 --> 44:47.500 That that's where i'm having a hard time because i'm seeing like I because I was telling you guys before that like 44:47.500 --> 44:53.260 Since coming out with these different beliefs like I I protested against roby wade because 44:53.260 --> 44:59.020 I vehemently believe that the church should just stay out of politics and that's why I protest and I 44:59.500 --> 45:06.060 Got so bullied by people that call themselves christians and I will call it bullying because the things that they said were mean 45:06.060 --> 45:11.900 Um, and they probably just see me as being a snowflake is probably what they would call me 45:11.900 --> 45:20.460 But I don't understand how you can call yourself a christian how you can claim to follow jesus and just treat people so poorly 45:20.460 --> 45:27.500 Because like if you look at the way that jesus treated people it was always putting that person first like that person came first 45:27.500 --> 45:34.700 He didn't ask them what their beliefs were he didn't ask them like all these in-depth questions about what you believe on this this this and this 45:34.700 --> 45:39.100 It was just like do you love me? Will you follow me? Okay, cool and like do good 45:40.300 --> 45:47.500 And I just I feel like modern christianity is so cruel and I don't know how it got to like 45:47.500 --> 45:50.700 So cruel and I don't know how it got to okay 45:50.940 --> 45:55.660 I do know how it got to this point because I feel like looking back on it christianity has always been cruel 45:55.820 --> 46:01.020 And I don't know how that stemmed from who jesus is but that i'm sure 46:01.340 --> 46:04.620 Mr d would come in and say well god is just and god has punishment 46:05.740 --> 46:08.140 And tell me all these things but like I just 46:08.780 --> 46:15.660 You can't sit there and tell me that jesus would walk into a room with someone from the lgbtq community and not affirm them 46:15.660 --> 46:21.740 You can't tell me that jesus wouldn't see children being slaughtered in schools and say 46:22.060 --> 46:24.460 We need to do something and we need to do something now 46:24.540 --> 46:29.180 You can't tell me that jesus wouldn't see all of these issues and take action 46:29.340 --> 46:36.300 Against all of the horrible things that are happening in our world and all I feel like christians care about is themselves and protecting their 46:36.440 --> 46:40.380 Individual selves and they don't give a rat's ass about anyone around them anymore 46:40.380 --> 46:45.660 You know, I think if they want to be persecuted we should just do that 46:47.500 --> 46:51.740 That's gonna be as bad as my bullying work shit that I had to deal with after the first episode 46:53.100 --> 46:55.100 like they 46:55.500 --> 47:01.180 No, no, but ryan they were persecuted when we wouldn't let them worship in churches because there was a pandemic going 47:01.740 --> 47:04.380 They were persecuted. You're right. You're right. I you know 47:05.020 --> 47:08.780 Poor poor people couldn't go and sing their hearts out 47:08.780 --> 47:11.340 And a building with a bunch of people with the same beliefs 47:11.980 --> 47:18.300 Sorry, I have so many feelings about modern christianity and you guys gave me a platform. Yeah blame constantin 47:18.620 --> 47:21.340 He's the one that put christianity in the public eye 47:21.900 --> 47:23.900 Uh, it's all his fault 47:24.620 --> 47:29.020 Okay, just so you know before constantin christians were being 47:29.580 --> 47:33.740 Murdered and everything and that's when christianity was at its peak. It was doing its best 47:33.740 --> 47:39.420 Yeah, once people got comfortable. I went downhill once christianity got power 47:39.900 --> 47:44.860 It was so funny too because I was when I was at the protest for roby wade. I was like 47:45.580 --> 47:47.660 90 sure if jesus was here on earth 47:47.660 --> 47:52.620 he'd be out here protesting with us or at least like having conversations with us because like 47:53.100 --> 47:55.820 Jesus was all about empathy and like understanding people 47:55.820 --> 47:59.520 So whether or not he would agree with it or not, he would be there having conversations 47:59.520 --> 48:03.680 conversations trying to understand people and like be there for them and 48:04.000 --> 48:08.880 Instead I was getting comments on my instagram post telling me that college really messed me up 48:10.880 --> 48:14.640 Here's my take on what christian or what jesus would be like 48:15.280 --> 48:18.240 Like in modern times he would go to one of those protests, right? 48:18.240 --> 48:24.720 He'd go up to the megaphone that the person's holding up there and have everyone sit down cross-legged like everyone's standing with their signs 48:24.720 --> 48:30.500 He'd just be like everyone sit down and then he'd just be telling a bunch of these riddles that make no fucking sense 48:38.640 --> 48:43.040 Like those people in the past they were like why like with the education level that they had and whatnot 48:43.680 --> 48:48.800 Like jesus would just be up there and just be speaking speaking gibberish. We have no idea what he was saying 48:49.200 --> 48:51.200 Like what are you talking about? 48:51.200 --> 48:53.680 I don't know just applaud 48:54.800 --> 48:56.800 He sounds good doing it though 48:58.000 --> 49:02.640 You got you got two options you can clap and applaud or you can run them out of town 49:03.520 --> 49:05.600 I would just be there for the food, you know 49:06.320 --> 49:09.600 There's no food at protests except well jesus can 49:10.240 --> 49:12.400 Jesus can feed them all okay 49:13.360 --> 49:15.360 He can multiply my granola bar 49:15.360 --> 49:19.840 I went to a protest and there was a 49:20.560 --> 49:21.600 uh 49:21.600 --> 49:24.560 I don't remember what they were called like food not bombs or something 49:25.200 --> 49:27.200 And they had free food best thing ever 49:28.240 --> 49:34.960 We were probably gonna get murdered by the kkk. But at least there were vegan sandwiches. Very good town on the sun 49:35.680 --> 49:41.040 Hey, i'm allergic to dairy. So I appreciate a vegan option being there. It was all vegan. That's the best part 49:41.280 --> 49:42.880 No one else had another option 49:42.880 --> 49:45.600 They were chickpea salad and they were amazing 49:46.240 --> 49:49.520 But i'm sure they were you can keep telling yourself that 49:50.880 --> 49:52.320 Hi brian 49:52.320 --> 49:56.560 Hey, i'm lactose intolerant. I just get the lactate stuff and eat that before every meal 49:57.120 --> 50:01.360 Oh, I have a straight up dairy allergy. My throat swells up. That's awesome 50:02.080 --> 50:05.040 Yeah, it recently developed in the last year pretty cool 50:05.440 --> 50:09.440 Probably had to change everything about what you eat all at once 50:09.440 --> 50:13.040 It's freaking horrible and I hate my life and I still eat cheese 50:13.280 --> 50:18.080 Yeah, you can't give up cheese after like eating cheese for 20 some years in a row. It's just 50:18.800 --> 50:20.800 I don't think there's any going back 50:20.800 --> 50:22.800 I'd rather die 50:22.800 --> 50:27.360 We went to get ice cream last night. We went to a place that they have a vegan option 50:27.600 --> 50:32.720 Yeah, and but they have like 30 other just normal ice cream options and I told nick 50:32.800 --> 50:37.040 I was like why couldn't the universe take this away from me when I was like three? 50:37.040 --> 50:41.520 Why'd they have to take it away when i'm 26 and I know what the other side is like 50:42.000 --> 50:45.520 Yeah, like why is the only non-dairy option coconut? Come on 50:46.560 --> 50:50.160 Give me something more than just coconut ice cream. I'm sick of it 50:51.040 --> 50:54.800 Uh, there are so many more options than just coconut everywhere I go 50:55.440 --> 50:59.760 The main option is coconut and then there's like maybe one other non-dairy option 51:00.480 --> 51:05.760 I support I stan with soy soy is the best and I will die on that hill 51:05.760 --> 51:08.080 No for ice cream. The best is oat 51:09.440 --> 51:12.160 Oat oat milk ice cream is so good 51:12.800 --> 51:14.800 Oh oat milk just has a weird 51:15.600 --> 51:19.840 To it makes it's the creamiest non-dairy ice cream i've ever had 51:20.480 --> 51:26.720 That's not true. You need to come have this soy. I know I i've tried soy ice cream. It's not real. It's fake. Okay 51:27.120 --> 51:31.680 Haven't had this ice cream. We're talking about we're talking about just cream. I don't like their soy ice cream 51:31.680 --> 51:37.120 Can you say just don't like their soy ice cream? No. Yes, it's just cream. That's a poor choice 51:39.840 --> 51:43.280 They know they have to know don't tell me what to do ice cream place 51:43.760 --> 51:46.080 They're black cherry soy ice cream. I 51:46.480 --> 51:50.800 Dream about it because it's the only ice cream i've had that's an actual ice cream texture 51:50.960 --> 51:56.960 All right, i'll get the black black cherry. I'll try you haven't got have you tried oatly like at the grocery stores like the little pints? 51:57.680 --> 52:00.480 Yeah, and I don't like it. I don't like oatly you're crazy 52:00.480 --> 52:02.480 Your taste buds need some work 52:03.280 --> 52:09.360 Well, my taste buds are screwed up because of covid. So yeah, well my lungs are screwed up because of covid 52:10.320 --> 52:12.320 So go team so 52:12.800 --> 52:15.920 Yay, can't go a day without wheezing in the morning 52:16.720 --> 52:24.320 So becca, thanks for joining us and breaking up the uh, the straight white male hierarchy we had going on give it a little 52:24.800 --> 52:26.800 variable and variance here 52:26.800 --> 52:31.760 Variance here. Uh, so the episode i'm barely different. I'm a cis white 52:32.320 --> 52:36.640 Female is she our token female for the show? Like what is this? 52:38.160 --> 52:43.520 We can stop being accused of appropriating everything and speaking out of our lane 52:44.000 --> 52:46.320 I don't want to go any further than that. I can keep going. Um 52:47.040 --> 52:48.240 so 52:48.240 --> 52:54.480 The episode we're talking about today is season three episode five when friends are deconverting. Um 52:54.480 --> 52:58.160 Um, the episode starts eight minutes into a very brisk 52:58.780 --> 53:05.920 27-minute episode. I feel like this topic should have had a little bit longer than 27 minutes. Well 19 minutes 53:06.000 --> 53:11.920 Really, but nope, apparently the world can be solved from deconversion in 19 minutes. So 53:12.640 --> 53:18.640 I'm just going to give a little background here. Uh, it opens up with a question from a former student 53:18.640 --> 53:24.880 Uh who was saying that they were talking to their best friend who used to believe in the story of christianity and jesus 53:25.040 --> 53:28.400 But now this person just believes that there is a god that created the world 53:28.560 --> 53:34.400 I asked what made you change your mind the person responded that there are so many religions and so many world views 53:34.560 --> 53:36.640 How do I know the one of christianity is true? 53:37.360 --> 53:40.800 um, so really to pull out of that is the person 53:41.600 --> 53:47.440 Found a lot of inconsistencies in christianity and that's what made them change their mind from being exclusive 53:47.440 --> 53:51.380 Exclusionary to more open to other religions 53:52.180 --> 53:54.180 Uh, so the student the former student 53:54.980 --> 53:58.420 Rear was responding to their best friend 53:58.980 --> 54:00.980 with concepts from utt and 54:01.940 --> 54:09.060 Their friend responded but anyone can use the religion to make the other one sound wrong and that put the former student at a standstill 54:09.300 --> 54:13.860 Which I think is kind of funny. Um, so I just wanted to talk a little bit about 54:13.860 --> 54:19.300 Uh the utt class in general. I know we mentioned it before but uh becca 54:19.780 --> 54:26.980 Actually, you did the final exam where you had to sit down and try to guess someone's world view and try to convert them 54:27.140 --> 54:29.060 If you want to talk about that a little bit 54:29.060 --> 54:34.820 Yeah, I I forgot that mr d stopped teaching bible class for a little bit after my grade 54:34.980 --> 54:41.140 Um, so I totally blanked on the fact that we were one of the last ones to have it obviously until he started teaching again 54:41.140 --> 54:45.540 But yeah, so you spent the entire year learning 54:45.700 --> 54:50.260 I think it was like eight world views or something like that and then your final exam 54:50.740 --> 54:55.940 He was a stranger at a bus stop mind you you did this in front of your entire class 54:56.020 --> 55:02.100 So you had to do this awkward interaction in front of your classmates, which made it just that much worse 55:02.260 --> 55:08.580 Um, but you basically had to walk up to him pretend like you were just a stranger and you had to strike up a conversation 55:08.580 --> 55:13.780 With him, um and ask questions and try to figure out what his world view was 55:14.020 --> 55:19.380 And then also based on what he was saying try to defend against the things he was telling you 55:19.620 --> 55:23.780 Um, and you it was kind of fun. It was like jeopardy. You got a lifeline, uh 55:24.340 --> 55:27.620 Because you had like one you could ask the class for help 55:27.700 --> 55:33.940 Like you could pause the interview or the interaction or whatever and ask the class for help and they could tell you like how? 55:34.020 --> 55:37.780 to direct the conversation or like what to ask if you were stuck and so 55:37.780 --> 55:42.340 Um when I did mine he ended up being a cosmic humanist 55:42.740 --> 55:45.700 Which I don't even fully remember exactly what that is 55:45.780 --> 55:51.860 I know like i'm pretty sure like buddhism and hinduism fall under that umbrella of some sort 55:52.100 --> 55:57.480 Yes, I was gonna say chris. You probably know better than I do. You're the brains of this operation 55:58.260 --> 56:02.580 Ryan did more school than me. But yeah, but you remember all your facts. So 56:02.580 --> 56:07.220 So you you have all of that tucked away deeply tucked away 56:07.860 --> 56:09.700 but yeah, so 56:09.700 --> 56:12.100 like my conversation with him, I remember it like 56:12.980 --> 56:18.980 It really got directed like towards the environment of some sort like we talked about oil spills and the turtles 56:19.540 --> 56:20.980 at some point 56:20.980 --> 56:22.580 um, and my 56:22.580 --> 56:29.060 My exam was actually relatively easy compared to a lot of the other people that had to do theirs because cosmic humanism 56:29.060 --> 56:33.700 What I remember it being pretty straightforward and just the tips and stuff that he gave us 56:33.700 --> 56:37.780 It was like decently easy to defend against which is such a true 56:37.860 --> 56:42.340 It's such a strange thing to have an exam be an argument with someone at a bus stop 56:42.340 --> 56:46.340 Because I don't think i've ever in my life even had a conversation at a bus 56:48.100 --> 56:50.100 It was just not realistic 56:50.100 --> 56:56.500 Well, you failed the lesson then because you're supposed to have these conversations all the time in college and convert people 56:56.500 --> 57:03.220 It's so funny because I do remember like my freshman year having some of these conversations and then I was like I don't care about this 57:03.940 --> 57:08.340 So I just stopped having the conversation. I just like arguing 57:08.900 --> 57:10.900 Did I want to be a lawyer at one point? Yes 57:10.900 --> 57:14.260 But do I want to actually care about what i'm arguing about also? 57:14.340 --> 57:20.500 Yes, and I just like didn't care about telling people that they were wrong. Like I my heart was just not in not in it 57:20.580 --> 57:23.780 But um, but yeah, I remember I did use my lifeline 57:23.780 --> 57:27.460 I had to pause and ask a question because I got stuck in my exam 57:27.460 --> 57:34.420 But I ended up figuring it out and what was so wild about the exam too is if you guess wrong you fail and I remember 57:35.380 --> 57:37.460 One of Ryan and I's mutual friends Austin 57:37.620 --> 57:39.860 I don't actually remember if he ended up failing or not 57:39.860 --> 57:45.940 but everyone in the class agreed with him and thought that the worldview that he chose was the correct one and 57:46.180 --> 57:51.940 Mr. D told him no that wasn't it. That wasn't the one I was doing and everyone said yes it was 57:51.940 --> 57:55.700 And he I don't know if he ended up failing him or not. Ryan. Do you remember? 57:56.100 --> 57:59.300 Uh, he didn't get failed. I think he got docked some points, but 57:59.940 --> 58:02.580 Okay, he did not fail the final 58:03.140 --> 58:09.620 Yeah, I just I remember him like threatening us like if you get it wrong, you'll fail and I was like what can you do that? 58:10.420 --> 58:12.420 You're giving us a 50-50 chance 58:12.720 --> 58:16.660 Basically, and if we get it wrong, then we fail we just fail the final 58:16.660 --> 58:23.540 but yeah, it was I like I just remember that like the trauma from that exam alone that it put people through because 58:23.700 --> 58:28.580 Some people just aren't meant to be put in front of people on a stage like that 58:28.580 --> 58:34.280 No less and people froze up a ton didn't know what to ask didn't know how to handle the conversation 58:34.820 --> 58:39.940 And I just I it's just mind-boggling to me that it wasn't I guess in a way 58:39.940 --> 58:45.060 It was a test of our knowledge, but it was like how well can you prove these people wrong? 58:45.060 --> 58:49.940 And that's not what I want my face to be in any way 58:50.100 --> 58:55.780 I don't want my faith to be about what I can prove people wrong about I want my faith to be my faith and 58:56.020 --> 58:58.500 That's it. Like my faith has nothing to do with other people 58:58.500 --> 59:02.100 It has nothing to do with conversations that I have trying to prove people wrong 59:02.260 --> 59:06.500 Like my faith is my faith and if people ask me questions, I'll answer it, but it's personal 59:06.500 --> 59:12.260 It's not my job to tell someone. Hey, I think you're wrong. And this is why here's all the reasons 59:12.260 --> 59:16.580 Like I that holy thing just haunts me 59:18.420 --> 59:21.220 Thank god we didn't have to do it. Yeah, it was 59:23.300 --> 59:25.380 Everyone was so stressed out 59:26.340 --> 59:30.580 It was yeah, I remember you guys being stressed. I don't even know you that well 59:31.140 --> 59:36.660 Yeah, it was bad. I think my best friend was I guess I can say her first name 59:36.660 --> 59:43.700 But Peyton was like freaking out and I just remember her and I like constantly going over the different world views and 59:43.940 --> 59:49.940 Like just going over them one after the other trying to remember like different things and we would watch the other 59:50.100 --> 59:53.620 classmates that had to do it because he got like put in a random order I think for 59:53.860 --> 59:58.660 Who like went first and we would sit in the back of the classroom and like if people were struggling 59:58.660 --> 01:00:02.420 We would sit there and try to figure out like how we would handle it and how we would help them 01:00:02.420 --> 01:00:06.420 But I don't know. I just that was not it 01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:08.420 That exam was not it 01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:10.900 It's bad. It's 01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:16.580 I think he still does it. Oh, I just also want to say that cosmic humanism isn't like a real term that 01:00:17.220 --> 01:00:23.060 Like other religions use no, it's not. It's uh, it's it's one that was just like fat. I don't know 01:00:23.380 --> 01:00:25.380 I keep saying this every episode but it's like 01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:30.980 evangelicals just create terms for things that were terms already exist to like 01:00:30.980 --> 01:00:32.980 feel smart or something but 01:00:33.460 --> 01:00:35.460 it's more 01:00:35.460 --> 01:00:38.740 That's like where i've never heard any of these world view like terms 01:00:39.220 --> 01:00:42.100 Like used outside of Lakewood. Yeah 01:00:42.580 --> 01:00:49.300 Except for Islam because Islam had its own umbrella too for some reason along with those other world views 01:00:49.620 --> 01:00:55.460 That's right. But I also remember mr. D getting really triggered when I brought up the point that 01:00:56.340 --> 01:00:58.340 uh, Islam and Christianity are so 01:00:58.340 --> 01:01:02.580 Very similar. They are just getting very very triggered being well 01:01:02.580 --> 01:01:10.100 No, i'm like then going into all this explanation. I'm like, no, but they're like really similar like really really similar. Yeah, almost like they 01:01:10.740 --> 01:01:17.380 Faded together around the same area in the same time in the same culture. It's weird. Yeah, same origin stories 01:01:18.340 --> 01:01:19.300 weird 01:01:19.300 --> 01:01:21.540 Yeah, don't know what that's about. But 01:01:21.540 --> 01:01:27.700 I'm sure we'll never figure it out. But yeah, cosmic humanism is just like the new age movement like kind of thing 01:01:27.700 --> 01:01:33.700 Is a more apt term for it. I don't know why they make these terms up. It's super annoying like because i'll come across 01:01:34.420 --> 01:01:39.060 Because i'll come across something and just be like there's a term for this in christianity 01:01:39.060 --> 01:01:43.300 And then I have to like match the terms and then remember which one goes where it's super annoying 01:01:43.300 --> 01:01:48.660 It's like your christianese. Yeah, it's yeah, there's a lot of things that it just feels like wait a second 01:01:48.660 --> 01:01:51.700 There's terms for all this like psychology and stuff too 01:01:52.340 --> 01:01:57.940 Like things they talk about yeah, like when they define truth they that was interesting 01:01:59.220 --> 01:02:06.820 So slopher defines truth in this episode with that which best corresponds with reality 01:02:06.820 --> 01:02:11.940 So does it match up with what is actual in our world? Oh, that was an interesting definition of truth 01:02:13.300 --> 01:02:16.100 You know our definition for for truth is 01:02:16.100 --> 01:02:21.860 You know our definition for for truth is that which best corresponds to reality, you know that 01:02:22.660 --> 01:02:24.660 Does it match up to what is actual? 01:02:25.780 --> 01:02:30.820 In our world and that is a weird definition. Yeah, so I was looking around trying to figure out where he got it 01:02:30.900 --> 01:02:33.060 I don't I don't know. I couldn't find anything about it 01:02:33.380 --> 01:02:37.780 I don't know if he made it up on the spot there or like it's a book that I wasn't able to find 01:02:38.100 --> 01:02:42.340 But I spent like a solid half an hour trying to find this definition of truth 01:02:42.340 --> 01:02:48.980 Yeah, that's weird. I feel like he the way that definition almost makes it sound like truth is relative 01:02:49.700 --> 01:02:55.220 Because if you're saying how like how it corresponds with our reality it could correspond differently with each person's reality 01:02:55.220 --> 01:02:58.260 I don't know. I'm not that smart though. So maybe I'm just confused 01:02:58.820 --> 01:03:00.820 Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point 01:03:01.140 --> 01:03:05.700 I just know all the answers they would say to that would be no and then just like a weird twist of 01:03:05.780 --> 01:03:10.260 What reality even means like we'd just be going down a definition rabbit hole with them 01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:14.660 Yeah, it'd be like reality is grounded in truth and then you're like, wait a second 01:03:15.540 --> 01:03:17.060 What? 01:03:17.060 --> 01:03:19.620 No, we're in a circle. Oh, no, not again 01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:23.540 But truth is the but what 01:03:24.660 --> 01:03:30.980 And then he goes on and he was saying that you can immediately weed out world views with uh, 01:03:31.300 --> 01:03:38.180 The students oh the students pronouns are she her they use so and the student's best friend and then he quotes no-brainer 01:03:38.180 --> 01:03:41.460 I know that's not true for some of the possible world views 01:03:42.020 --> 01:03:49.060 And then goes on this weird rant about atheism isn't true because we have morals and I know i've heard that one before 01:03:49.060 --> 01:03:55.060 And it's just weird that it's still around but basically they believe that morality came 01:03:55.620 --> 01:04:02.100 From a creator that's good and only good so we we have a we have a goalpost through god because he's 01:04:02.100 --> 01:04:07.860 Perfect and he's never done any evil and so we know what good is through that 01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:10.660 It at least weed out some 01:04:11.220 --> 01:04:16.500 World views and some religions that right away. It's like no-brainer. Okay. Well, I know that's not that's not true 01:04:17.060 --> 01:04:23.940 Whether it's based on what we know through science and observation or based on what we know through human life everyday human life experience 01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:26.340 for example with atheism that 01:04:26.980 --> 01:04:31.140 Morality, you know has has arisen from uh evolution and then 01:04:31.140 --> 01:04:33.140 Even the problem of evil and suffering 01:04:33.940 --> 01:04:41.060 Is bad luck, you know even the person who who is an atheist who would claim that doesn't really live that though 01:04:41.380 --> 01:04:45.060 They're not really going to live as if evil and suffering is just bad luck 01:04:45.060 --> 01:04:48.580 I mean, it's something they really care about especially when it hits close to home 01:04:48.580 --> 01:04:51.620 What do you think about uh, where do you think morals came from ryan? 01:04:52.180 --> 01:04:58.020 Morals society social evolution. How can there be people with different morals? 01:04:58.020 --> 01:05:02.580 Like if we're gonna say that there's a base standard of morals that everyone has 01:05:02.900 --> 01:05:05.540 Then everyone would follow those not everyone 01:05:05.540 --> 01:05:12.020 There's not one moral that everyone follows that thinks it's good or bad like give me a sure give me a standard 01:05:12.020 --> 01:05:15.380 Yeah, name one and I bet there's a group out there that would think it's 01:05:16.020 --> 01:05:19.460 Either like the opposite of what some other group of people think 01:05:20.020 --> 01:05:24.980 Oh postmodernism my favorite. That one is my favorite. Never mind. I love postmodernism 01:05:24.980 --> 01:05:30.660 I just remember him telling us that postmodernists were the worst. Oh, yeah, they still say that in pod their podcast episodes, too 01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:32.660 It's great. Yeah 01:05:32.660 --> 01:05:34.340 We have a couple 01:05:34.340 --> 01:05:41.380 We have some inside jokes where in our description and stuff we say postmodernism not because it's like a real thing 01:05:41.380 --> 01:05:44.260 But because we know that they talk shit about it all the time 01:05:45.300 --> 01:05:47.300 still 01:05:49.460 --> 01:05:52.100 I think postmodern is like the realest out of all of them though 01:05:52.100 --> 01:05:56.500 I think that's a pretty real term. It makes a lot of sense and it's really just 01:05:57.200 --> 01:05:59.200 hermeneutics 01:05:59.200 --> 01:06:04.420 I think human humanism is a thing too, but they like they call it secular humanism or cosmic 01:06:05.220 --> 01:06:12.740 Or oh, yeah, or like just humanism. That was a thing. It is the whole I'm this is where I'm very much like still deconstructing so 01:06:14.020 --> 01:06:18.020 I wouldn't know what to tell you to that question. Like I haven't gotten there yet 01:06:18.020 --> 01:06:22.740 All you do is just wholeheartedly just go with a belief at the time 01:06:22.740 --> 01:06:26.820 And then you just change that belief like a few days later, and then you just wholeheartedly 01:06:27.620 --> 01:06:29.620 argue a different perspective 01:06:29.620 --> 01:06:34.500 Just keep arguing random perspectives and it's a great time until one sticks. Yeah 01:06:35.060 --> 01:06:41.460 Until one actually makes sense and like you don't find a hole which really never I don't think that's happened yet 01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:43.460 There's been a hole 01:06:43.460 --> 01:06:48.980 What's it called where you just believe in being a decent human being? Humanism. Okay, perfect 01:06:50.580 --> 01:06:54.820 Yeah, but see that's problematic in itself. What does it mean to be decent? 01:06:55.380 --> 01:07:02.500 People have different ideas on what decent is and what being a decent human being is. Yeah, that's why that's why you need god for morals 01:07:03.060 --> 01:07:05.060 No, you don't 01:07:05.380 --> 01:07:10.980 You want god for morals. It would be so much easier if there was some 01:07:10.980 --> 01:07:14.020 Baseline or standard like life would be so much easier that way 01:07:14.660 --> 01:07:19.940 I don't know. They seem to have a baseline and it makes it life pretty freaking difficult for everyone else 01:07:19.940 --> 01:07:26.500 But not for them. It's easy for them. They they enjoy it. They love having set beliefs that they don't falter on 01:07:27.940 --> 01:07:29.060 well 01:07:29.060 --> 01:07:31.060 publicly falter on 01:07:31.060 --> 01:07:35.940 Right, but like even if they do they're not gonna admit it. Yeah, they have a built-in 01:07:36.580 --> 01:07:38.580 trapdoor for that and it's the 01:07:38.580 --> 01:07:45.940 Concept of redemption right like I sin but i'm turning it around and getting better. It's not called redemption. It's called uh 01:07:48.660 --> 01:07:52.980 I feel like it is redemption or repentance repentance. Thank you. Thank you 01:07:53.540 --> 01:07:59.540 Yeah, that's their built-in trapdoor is repentance. That's like one of the cool things about that 01:08:00.180 --> 01:08:05.060 Instagram group that I follow new evangelicals is he harps a lot on like 01:08:05.060 --> 01:08:09.300 we are not perfect because he a lot of his like content is about just 01:08:10.260 --> 01:08:12.900 basically being a different type of christian and 01:08:13.380 --> 01:08:18.020 He talks about how like not everything he says necessarily gonna be true 01:08:18.020 --> 01:08:21.780 He can be wrong about things and that's okay. And even he posted 01:08:23.140 --> 01:08:26.340 Something that he ended up learning more information about and he 01:08:26.900 --> 01:08:31.220 Reposted it and explained I was incorrect in this. This is what happened. And like 01:08:31.220 --> 01:08:34.900 Explained how he was wrong about something and I was like that is so refreshing like 01:08:35.540 --> 01:08:43.380 Thank you for being able to admit you're wrong about something and owning up to it because I have never even seen a pastor do that 01:08:45.300 --> 01:08:46.660 Yeah 01:08:46.660 --> 01:08:50.260 Yeah, I don't think I have either i'm trying to think about that now 01:08:50.900 --> 01:08:57.460 I'm even just thinking about like that Warsaw. Did you see the stuff about that pastor in Warsaw? Yeah, that was fucked up 01:08:57.460 --> 01:09:00.980 Yeah, super fucked up Ryan. Did you see that stuff? Nope 01:09:01.780 --> 01:09:02.980 so 01:09:02.980 --> 01:09:04.980 Mr. Ignorant over there. Yeah 01:09:05.780 --> 01:09:08.740 there was a pastor in Warsaw who 01:09:09.620 --> 01:09:13.940 He was admitting to adultery in front of his congregation 01:09:14.500 --> 01:09:22.420 but really what he actually did was rape because the girl was a minor and it was like rape and grooming 01:09:23.060 --> 01:09:24.020 and 01:09:24.020 --> 01:09:28.900 He was trying to paint it as adultery and the this is like years later 01:09:28.900 --> 01:09:35.380 And the girl stood up with her husband, I think and was like no I was a child like you raped me 01:09:36.100 --> 01:09:36.900 and 01:09:36.900 --> 01:09:38.420 He was just like 01:09:38.420 --> 01:09:44.500 Deferring all the blame and all this stuff and like people in the congregation were yelling at him and calling him out like it was 01:09:44.660 --> 01:09:45.940 a mess 01:09:45.940 --> 01:09:51.220 Yeah, and then the majority of the congregation afterwards got up in a pretty bad mood 01:09:51.220 --> 01:09:55.140 Majority of the congregation afterwards got up and prayed for him in a circle 01:09:55.780 --> 01:09:58.820 while the victim was just like crying alone with her 01:10:00.100 --> 01:10:02.100 Assumingly partner not sure but yeah 01:10:02.980 --> 01:10:06.260 Yeah, so tell me what good does knowing that stuff do you guys? 01:10:07.940 --> 01:10:12.820 I knew the guy I've met that pastor before. Yeah. What good does it do you? Yeah 01:10:13.940 --> 01:10:15.620 I mean 01:10:15.620 --> 01:10:19.380 We're working on it. I am it's one step at a time one episode at a time 01:10:19.380 --> 01:10:22.340 It's examples of how not to be 01:10:23.140 --> 01:10:25.140 That is not a decent human 01:10:26.020 --> 01:10:28.020 Based on what? 01:10:29.540 --> 01:10:34.180 Screwed up someone else's life. So screwing up someone else's life is what is 01:10:39.220 --> 01:10:44.420 You know, that's it's weird that's interesting because they would have to make an argument that 01:10:45.140 --> 01:10:47.700 Like that's what cassilford would have to make an argument 01:10:47.700 --> 01:10:49.700 that child marriage and 01:10:50.420 --> 01:10:54.580 Like underage stuff like that is obviously not moral 01:10:54.900 --> 01:11:01.940 But in the bible it was normal and like throughout the entire old testament. So like where does that morality come from? 01:11:03.140 --> 01:11:07.700 Because that's my thing is like clearly the morality of things has changed over time 01:11:08.020 --> 01:11:11.540 Because we're not okay with teens getting married anymore 01:11:12.100 --> 01:11:15.060 but that was a thing that just happened all the time in the bible and 01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:20.420 So how can things like that change but other things can't how can we take and? 01:11:21.700 --> 01:11:23.940 You those aspects of the bible 01:11:24.660 --> 01:11:26.900 But other things aren't allowed to change 01:11:27.700 --> 01:11:32.260 It depends what issues are wrapped up in their political power or not. But yeah 01:11:32.820 --> 01:11:37.060 Well, and it's like only because it's something that now looks bad. Whereas like 01:11:37.700 --> 01:11:40.180 I don't understand why it's so bad to ask 01:11:40.740 --> 01:11:42.260 the church to like 01:11:42.260 --> 01:11:47.060 The church to like affirm people moving in together and like affirm 01:11:47.920 --> 01:11:56.100 LGBTQ and affirm women and affirm like it's not a bad look. So why are you fighting so hard against it? 01:11:57.460 --> 01:12:01.460 I mean, they probably just can't admit mistakes. Honestly, like yeah 01:12:01.460 --> 01:12:07.060 I mean you're saying earlier you've never seen a pastor or someone in power really admit a mistake before 01:12:07.620 --> 01:12:08.660 and like 01:12:08.660 --> 01:12:16.100 Yeah, why why would they go back and admit a mistake when they can just corrupt entire branches of government and go back to? 01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:19.520 1950s and before 01:12:21.140 --> 01:12:23.140 Good luck guys. Cheers 01:12:24.260 --> 01:12:26.180 It's all downhill from here 01:12:26.180 --> 01:12:28.180 Anyway, this is my escape from that 01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:29.220 so 01:12:29.220 --> 01:12:32.180 I thought it was interesting at about 15 minutes in 01:12:32.740 --> 01:12:37.940 D says that the person is correct in saying that anyone can use their religion to make the other sound wrong 01:12:37.940 --> 01:12:41.860 So he's right that anyone can use their own religion 01:12:42.660 --> 01:12:44.580 to show that 01:12:44.580 --> 01:12:49.460 Another one is wrong. But what we're saying and I think what her question actually 01:12:50.180 --> 01:12:54.020 Said was that there are inconsistencies in the worldview story 01:12:54.420 --> 01:12:56.500 So she was on the the right track 01:12:56.500 --> 01:13:01.380 She just needs to press that issue with him like that's it's not what I said 01:13:01.940 --> 01:13:05.960 What I said was within the worldview itself there are inconsistencies 01:13:05.960 --> 01:13:09.000 And it was a very interesting point to concede 01:13:09.320 --> 01:13:13.000 But then he goes really off the rails and he starts talking about 01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:17.800 Hinduism or other related religions that are new age and 01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:22.760 Cosmic humanist related. Yeah. Well sure if we use their terms cosmic humans 01:13:23.560 --> 01:13:29.640 Cosmic humanist and that basically said he starts talking about how they see the physical world as an illusion 01:13:30.120 --> 01:13:32.360 So pain and suffering and evil is an illusion 01:13:32.360 --> 01:13:37.960 And he's like, how can you look someone in the eyes that has been raped and say that the world is just an illusion 01:13:37.960 --> 01:13:40.280 And all the pain and suffering they feel is an illusion 01:13:41.080 --> 01:13:45.880 You know with with hinduism, you know or or any religion that says 01:13:46.280 --> 01:13:51.880 Okay, the physical world as as brett pointed out the physical world is is an illusion 01:13:52.440 --> 01:13:57.320 Okay, so then within if we think about that that means that 01:13:58.280 --> 01:14:00.680 you know suffering and pain and 01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:07.960 Evil is also an illusion. Does that make sense with what you see in the world? 01:14:08.520 --> 01:14:14.280 You know, can you look at someone who said who's been raped and say sorry. It doesn't exist 01:14:14.280 --> 01:14:17.960 It's just an illusion. All right, your pain is just illusory 01:14:18.760 --> 01:14:21.000 Because this physical world doesn't exist 01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:25.320 Which is like, okay really just raise the stakes there 01:14:25.320 --> 01:14:31.640 But then also christians do that all the time when like someone dies from cancer and they just say it's like 01:14:31.640 --> 01:14:38.440 And it was god's plan that someone died like you say the same thing like you don't use the word illusion for the the uh, the entire world 01:14:38.440 --> 01:14:44.600 Which isn't even how teamism or cosmic humanists see things but whatever like he's completely wrong 01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:47.320 But well, that's when he's when he said it 01:14:47.320 --> 01:14:52.120 I was like, I feel like you're assuming a lot about how a person is gonna handle a situation like that 01:14:52.120 --> 01:14:58.520 It's gonna handle a situation like that. Like I feel like you're just taking the very like far end of how they could approach it 01:14:58.600 --> 01:15:03.720 And assuming that that's how they're gonna approach it because like christians just approach things so aggressively 01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:10.040 Like someone that actually believes that is not gonna they're not gonna discredit someone being raped and tell them it's an illusion 01:15:10.200 --> 01:15:15.160 Like if they are an actual human being that is not in any way shape or form how they're gonna actually address 01:15:15.480 --> 01:15:19.640 That type of situation like have you I want to know have you actually met someone that that's how they handle it 01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:23.000 Like that's how they that's how they treat it. Like if they met someone that had been raped 01:15:23.080 --> 01:15:28.920 They would just completely disregard it in order to force what they believe down that person's throat because I have and they're all christians 01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:34.120 so yeah, I was gonna say just this past week or yesterday the uh, 01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:40.840 There's been christians talking about the 10 year old rape victim that got an abortion here from ohio 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:43.000 Because it's banned in ohio now, but not here 01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:50.120 So she got one in indy and she's 10 years old and there's still christians saying things like it was god's plan 01:15:50.120 --> 01:15:54.920 Do you have a child and like you murdered it kind of thing and it was like I don't hear that from any other sec 01:15:55.320 --> 01:16:01.640 Sect except you like and it's not every christian obviously but like the people in power like that was 01:16:02.120 --> 01:16:07.160 A state senator and then i've seen stuff from our attorney general even who's a piece of work 01:16:07.400 --> 01:16:11.880 But like it's like people who have power say these things and like it's awful 01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:17.880 It's very frustrating kind of remember who it is because there was another political figure too that was talking about how 01:16:18.440 --> 01:16:25.080 Instead of like acknowledging the horrible and horrific thing that happened to this child and the fact that she had to go 01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:32.520 Across a state border in order to deal with it. She was like posting pictures of the man who raped her 01:16:33.080 --> 01:16:38.520 He was posting she was posting pictures of his like booking photo and saying well he was arrested 01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:43.640 Like look at look at this justice that was done. He was arrested like okay cool 01:16:43.640 --> 01:16:47.880 But that doesn't negate the fact that this child was raped and now pregnant with that man's child 01:16:48.280 --> 01:16:50.280 So I get like 10 01:16:50.360 --> 01:16:55.240 Yes a literal child and these are the exact kind of scenarios that we were afraid of 01:16:55.640 --> 01:17:02.680 And now you're trying to completely discredit this child's experience by saying well, at least he was arrested like yeah 01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:06.360 Okay, cool. That's our justice system. He was arrested awesome 01:17:06.360 --> 01:17:13.640 But you still have a child that is now pregnant with her rapist child and she herself is a child 01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:21.080 So how does him getting arrested have anything to do with the fact that now she's having to process that trauma? 01:17:21.560 --> 01:17:23.080 Yeah, I mean 01:17:23.080 --> 01:17:24.840 Yeah, exactly 01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:31.640 Like the situation has happened and it was christians telling that their pain suffering and evil is an illusion 01:17:31.640 --> 01:17:35.480 Like they don't use that word, but it's the same concepts and it's really frustrating 01:17:35.480 --> 01:17:37.480 It was really frustrating to hear him say that that's for sure 01:17:38.520 --> 01:17:45.480 Because it wasn't it wasn't even a topic that was being talked about and then it's just like let's just take the highest stake possible like a rape case 01:17:46.120 --> 01:17:53.720 And just like imagine that but like you hear the same thing when anyone gets like cancer or anything like christians always have to stay 01:17:53.720 --> 01:17:59.400 So positive about it and like pretend to be positive like you can say that having cancer fucking sucks 01:17:59.400 --> 01:18:02.200 And you can be depressed about it like that's the normal reaction 01:18:02.200 --> 01:18:08.680 Like having people tell you all the time that it was in god's plan to do this and like it was your time to get called back 01:18:08.920 --> 01:18:13.720 It's like you're basically saying the physical world is an illusion because the rest is in your heaven 01:18:14.200 --> 01:18:18.280 Like it's the same concept. I hate when they're like just pray about it like 01:18:19.080 --> 01:18:22.360 Okay. Well, nothing's happened and i'm still dealing with it. So 01:18:23.080 --> 01:18:24.920 I need further steps 01:18:24.920 --> 01:18:30.840 Yeah, and like people get so caught up into that just praying about it and doing like natural remedies kind of thing that they die 01:18:30.840 --> 01:18:36.120 like they don't do the things that work because they're so wrapped up in the anti-science like 01:18:37.240 --> 01:18:43.320 Vaccines are not effective and like they get caught up in this all this stuff that the churches 01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:48.760 Let get peddled around for so long that you try to do natural cancer remedies 01:18:48.760 --> 01:18:54.680 Then you like you die because you can't trust scientists or anything like that and it's super frustrating 01:18:55.320 --> 01:18:58.760 even just like the whole mental health crisis like I 01:18:58.760 --> 01:19:04.360 Got told to just pray about it so many times while I was having panic attacks suicidal thoughts 01:19:05.080 --> 01:19:07.720 severe severe depression and 01:19:08.520 --> 01:19:10.520 You want me to just pray about it? 01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:15.960 I need serious help like I I need actual 01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:19.240 Help, I don't need to just keep praying about it 01:19:19.240 --> 01:19:26.120 I need someone to actually help me who is licensed and a professional to walk me through this. I would not be 01:19:26.120 --> 01:19:31.240 Where I am today if I didn't get actual counseling done to work through those issues 01:19:31.720 --> 01:19:33.720 So not pastoral counseling 01:19:34.200 --> 01:19:41.080 It is technically the wife of a pastor, but she is actually a licensed mental health counselor 01:19:41.720 --> 01:19:44.760 That's good. I wrote a whole paper on why they shouldn't be pastoral counseling 01:19:45.480 --> 01:19:51.880 Yeah, it's good stuff. You know, it sounds like all these Christians could just benefit really from just following the science 01:19:52.440 --> 01:19:53.960 like just 01:19:53.960 --> 01:19:55.960 Just looking into the science 01:19:57.480 --> 01:19:59.480 They have their own science 01:20:01.480 --> 01:20:03.480 We'll get to that in a second 01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:07.960 Have a couple more we have a couple more bullet points before that 01:20:10.680 --> 01:20:11.480 I 01:20:11.480 --> 01:20:13.480 another interesting thing is 01:20:14.040 --> 01:20:20.200 That d brings up that one of the options for the former student is to use 01:20:20.200 --> 01:20:22.200 the worldview of I 01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:27.880 I again need to clarify that worldview isn't actually a real thing that real official people use 01:20:28.520 --> 01:20:30.840 It's just a Christian thing and i'm using their language 01:20:31.400 --> 01:20:37.080 So he uses the term worldview and saying to use it against them instead of using Christianity against them 01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:41.160 That that religion it is uh, you know is wrong 01:20:41.160 --> 01:20:46.200 It's using its own worldview to argue that those are that that is wrong 01:20:46.200 --> 01:20:50.440 And so that's one of the tests we can put to worldviews to determine 01:20:51.240 --> 01:20:55.560 Well, is does this make sense? Does this make logical sense? Is it livable? 01:20:55.640 --> 01:21:01.160 Right. Is there evidence outside the worldview we can touch on that would show it to be true 01:21:01.160 --> 01:21:07.640 So there's a few tests we can put to these religions to be able to determine the truth rather than just 01:21:08.200 --> 01:21:12.200 You know, I say this is true. You say that is true. Yeah, that's gonna go nowhere 01:21:12.200 --> 01:21:18.040 Which is like a really stupid point to make but like I remember it being a big thing in the utt class 01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:23.960 Is like if christians know enough about another worldview that they feel like they can prove it false 01:21:23.960 --> 01:21:28.360 But then they never take that concept and apply it to christianity as their worldview 01:21:28.680 --> 01:21:33.240 And like if I know enough about christianity then I can also prove it false 01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:38.920 Just like I can do with any other worldview of like they always come in it with a baseline of like christianity is true 01:21:38.920 --> 01:21:42.760 And then here's why it's true and it's never like all of the evidence makes it true 01:21:43.080 --> 01:21:46.120 It's like here's a bunch of evidence after the fact that makes it true 01:21:46.120 --> 01:21:49.080 And then here's where all these other worldviews are also false 01:21:49.080 --> 01:21:54.360 And so ours is the best one, but then they like they never evaluate anything on fair ground 01:21:54.360 --> 01:22:00.920 And that's why I lost my faith because turns out once you start thinking about christianity. It starts to break apart 01:22:01.400 --> 01:22:04.680 Well, and that's like I that utt exam thinking about that 01:22:04.680 --> 01:22:12.040 Is interesting because you know you have this conversation with a stranger, but he never really argues back about christianity 01:22:12.520 --> 01:22:19.240 Like it was just me pointing out the flaws in his belief system and then him trying to defend that obviously 01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:26.920 But then you're supposed to like slide christianity in there and like basically witness and evangelize to them 01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:31.400 But it's never them then coming at christianity and trying to defend christianity 01:22:31.400 --> 01:22:36.600 But it's never them then coming at christianity and trying to point out the flaws in that 01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:44.360 It was all very one-sided of just trying to prove them wrong and then slip christianity in there. Yeah, super weird 01:22:45.400 --> 01:22:47.240 Super not normal 01:22:47.240 --> 01:22:55.000 Yeah, it's it's just so funny because it's like once you apply that because like utt was the class where I started taking it 01:22:55.000 --> 01:23:02.760 And that's where like I couldn't hide like I couldn't bury my uh thoughts about christianity and like it was becoming more and more 01:23:02.820 --> 01:23:07.000 Fractured was about when utt happened and then it was like it was only worse 01:23:07.000 --> 01:23:12.120 So it was just kind of like duct taping everything together and pretending everything was fine as it was just like all like 01:23:12.440 --> 01:23:15.960 Crumbling and through the duct tape and like just falling onto the floor 01:23:16.040 --> 01:23:24.200 It's like everything's fine kind of thing and it wasn't but like the point of lakewood is that you do 12 whole years of 01:23:24.200 --> 01:23:30.220 Of christianity so you come in with the baseline for utt and then it's not supposed to fall apart because I was looking at the 01:23:31.020 --> 01:23:33.340 The curriculum and they now have curriculum 01:23:33.980 --> 01:23:36.780 That's focused like different sections of it 01:23:36.860 --> 01:23:40.700 They spread it out across the entire 12 years of like a private school education 01:23:41.260 --> 01:23:45.740 And i'm very curious. I want to buy some and go through all uh, all of the years of it 01:23:45.820 --> 01:23:51.340 But you're supposed to have a foundation just built on christianity and then not think about anything else for 11 years 01:23:51.340 --> 01:23:55.500 And then your senior year you're supposed to like here's where everything's false 01:23:55.660 --> 01:23:59.260 And then it's already too late for you to deconstruct at that point 01:23:59.820 --> 01:24:01.340 but 01:24:01.340 --> 01:24:03.340 It's interesting. It's interesting 01:24:04.380 --> 01:24:06.060 It's interesting when 01:24:06.060 --> 01:24:12.860 You learn critical thinking skills of how dangerous of a weapon that is if you're being trying you're trying to be kept in line 01:24:13.100 --> 01:24:14.300 kind of thing too 01:24:14.300 --> 01:24:21.900 Yeah, because I feel like I remember so many times that like they told us to question things and like 01:24:22.300 --> 01:24:27.500 I remember mr d specifically telling us to ask questions, but then it was met with like this 01:24:27.660 --> 01:24:29.660 Well, don't ask like too many questions 01:24:30.620 --> 01:24:35.980 Like and ask the right questions like we only were allowed to ask very specific questions 01:24:36.220 --> 01:24:41.900 Because anything outside the scope that was leaning towards like moving away from faith was dangerous 01:24:41.900 --> 01:24:47.260 But it's like you want us to ask questions, but you don't want us to ask these questions 01:24:47.260 --> 01:24:51.260 But you want to teach us critical thinking but we're only 01:24:51.740 --> 01:24:56.860 like I feel like they tried to put these very like restrictive rules on critical thinking for us and 01:24:57.180 --> 01:25:01.180 It didn't work out for a lot of us because I think a lot of us have gone past 01:25:01.740 --> 01:25:05.820 Those boundaries. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's interesting 01:25:05.820 --> 01:25:11.820 So I don't I don't want to talk about this but so they bring up the worldview test 01:25:12.860 --> 01:25:16.940 Three tests to apply to any any worldview. Is it logically consistent? 01:25:17.260 --> 01:25:25.020 Is it empirically adequate and is it existentially relevant? So can you follow a flow of logic logic in which it's not? 01:25:26.700 --> 01:25:29.820 Contradictory within itself or within the tenets of that faith 01:25:30.460 --> 01:25:34.940 Is it empirically adequate? Does it does it line up with what is observable? 01:25:34.940 --> 01:25:42.140 In creation and then essentially relevant. Does it actually connect with our human existence and experience? 01:25:42.700 --> 01:25:44.060 But it's funny 01:25:44.060 --> 01:25:48.860 I just wanted to point out that I'm pretty sure and as far as I could tell by googling 01:25:49.100 --> 01:25:55.420 That that was created by Ravi Zacharias who was a real piece of shit and a very big hypocrite 01:25:55.420 --> 01:26:00.380 And it was just kind of funny to me. But like when you point those tools also against Christianity 01:26:00.380 --> 01:26:02.220 It's kind of the same point I was making earlier 01:26:02.220 --> 01:26:06.300 It's like the same flaws appear kind of thing and so like I don't know 01:26:06.460 --> 01:26:10.940 It's just it always is ironic to me when they hand these tools out to students and 01:26:11.260 --> 01:26:17.900 They just point it at every other worldview and are like like they're telling they're telling this former student to use these three tools 01:26:18.300 --> 01:26:25.500 As a way to break apart your best friend's worldview, but don't do it on yourself in your own worldview because christianity is true 01:26:25.500 --> 01:26:31.740 I also just want to know what like what other religions out there are being this aggressive 01:26:32.140 --> 01:26:34.140 About what other people think? 01:26:35.820 --> 01:26:41.100 Who cares this much about this kind of stuff? Like I don't that's what I don't understand 01:26:41.180 --> 01:26:46.300 I cannot fathom why we care so much like I I do but I also don't I don't 01:26:47.020 --> 01:26:49.020 I don't know. Well, it's interesting to me 01:26:49.020 --> 01:26:55.180 Um that christianity is the most popular but they're bleeding 01:26:55.660 --> 01:26:59.420 Like young people like I remember like there's always the statistic about like 01:26:59.980 --> 01:27:04.940 The seniors that go to college their first year like 70 percent of them lose their faith kind of thing 01:27:05.500 --> 01:27:07.020 And it's like interesting 01:27:07.020 --> 01:27:12.860 It's like something's wrong and you should think about it and like maybe change some stuff and then instead they're just like no 01:27:13.020 --> 01:27:14.700 Get our grip tighter 01:27:14.700 --> 01:27:17.020 Yeah, they dig their heels in deeper. Yeah 01:27:17.020 --> 01:27:21.980 Yeah, not great on the self-reflect self-reflection and repentance thing as a movement 01:27:22.700 --> 01:27:25.100 It is interesting when I worked at the church 01:27:25.260 --> 01:27:29.820 they did this whole big project on it's called growing young and 01:27:30.460 --> 01:27:36.780 They were like trying to understand ways that they could like fix how much they were bleeding young people and like losing young people 01:27:37.100 --> 01:27:42.060 And all this stuff and i'm trying to remember like what the issues that people had were 01:27:42.220 --> 01:27:44.700 But I don't think anything actually came out of it 01:27:44.700 --> 01:27:50.620 I don't I like I think the only thing that really changed was they focused like a little bit more on the student ministry 01:27:50.620 --> 01:27:53.980 And the kids ministry like they would highlight them more 01:27:54.380 --> 01:27:58.940 But and so like try to make them involved in like the main church service and that sort of thing 01:28:00.220 --> 01:28:02.220 but nothing like 01:28:02.680 --> 01:28:04.780 Foundationally changed 01:28:04.780 --> 01:28:07.260 Right, they're just changing their manipulation tactic 01:28:08.040 --> 01:28:11.180 Essentially, yes get it started earlier 01:28:11.180 --> 01:28:15.900 Yeah, that was I just like I remember sitting in on those meetings and 01:28:16.220 --> 01:28:21.740 Just like having all these thoughts about like why don't we feature women more? Why don't we get more female staff members? 01:28:21.740 --> 01:28:25.020 Why don't we get people that are not white on staff? 01:28:25.740 --> 01:28:31.020 Why don't we do all these other things instead of just like focusing on here's a child 01:28:31.500 --> 01:28:33.500 the service 01:28:34.140 --> 01:28:38.300 Yeah, something meaningful instead of the easy route of just like 01:28:38.300 --> 01:28:41.660 Pretending this is going to help well and it's like, you know 01:28:41.660 --> 01:28:44.140 You can have these services where you focus on kids 01:28:44.140 --> 01:28:50.380 But like make these other fundamental changes that are clearly issues within this church before 01:28:50.700 --> 01:28:56.780 Focusing on the children and the youth because yes the children and the youth want to see more of like their own 01:28:57.020 --> 01:29:04.060 representation in ways, but they want to see other minority groups and like just other types of people 01:29:04.060 --> 01:29:08.460 Represented within the church, I think and even that would be impactful 01:29:08.460 --> 01:29:11.420 But instead it was like let's just throw the kids on stage 01:29:13.020 --> 01:29:15.020 Chris should we 01:29:15.820 --> 01:29:22.540 Do an episode of county lines family podcast sometime? Is that the podcast that jb and 01:29:23.260 --> 01:29:26.460 Matt did uh, there's one with dane in it. What's it called? 01:29:26.460 --> 01:29:31.980 Hang on. Let me look it up because there's one that they because they used my brother's song for the intro 01:29:31.980 --> 01:29:36.460 That's awesome. Uh, the jesus-centered family podcast is what it is called 01:29:37.100 --> 01:29:43.740 I've never listened to it. I have it's all about their sticky fae thing. It's about like families and like keeping your kids 01:29:44.700 --> 01:29:48.620 From leaving. Oh, yeah, that's the one the intro is my brother's song 01:29:48.620 --> 01:29:55.260 Oh god, I was there when they came up with that tag line equipping every generation to intentionally live a jesus-centered life 01:29:55.500 --> 01:29:59.180 We spent an entire day's meeting coming up with that line 01:29:59.180 --> 01:30:04.220 Uh a whole eight hours just change equipping to indoctrinating is perfect 01:30:06.540 --> 01:30:12.300 Indoctrinating every generation to intentionally live a jesus-centered life that sounds much more correct 01:30:13.100 --> 01:30:19.020 Listen, I can't talk too poorly about yes, you can county line student ministries because I yes you can 01:30:20.060 --> 01:30:24.860 I actually appreciate those guys. They were not my problems with county line 01:30:24.860 --> 01:30:28.300 Because they were not my problems with county line. Um 01:30:29.660 --> 01:30:37.260 The whole the whole thing there's good people in there, but they are willingly participating in it 01:30:38.060 --> 01:30:43.180 Yeah, like yeah, you understand where they're coming from, but it is willful ignorance 01:30:43.980 --> 01:30:49.580 This is the difference though. I can like them as human beings and have issues with their theology 01:30:50.540 --> 01:30:52.540 and their beliefs 01:30:52.540 --> 01:30:56.700 That sounds a lot. I hate this and that sounds a lot like yeah, I love this 01:30:58.300 --> 01:31:01.180 Yeah, that's sounding a lot like that and that is 01:31:02.360 --> 01:31:04.360 scientifically proven and not be possible 01:31:06.380 --> 01:31:10.380 Hey, I can think someone is a nice person and think they've got some shitty beliefs 01:31:11.900 --> 01:31:17.580 Okay beliefs is different actions like you can't really like a person that does terrible actions 01:31:18.380 --> 01:31:20.380 Yeah, that's fair. It's hard too 01:31:20.380 --> 01:31:23.580 I think you know who else is predictable slow fur 01:31:23.740 --> 01:31:29.580 So he comes out and he starts talking about a correct answer for everything and then decides to bring science into it 01:31:29.660 --> 01:31:37.420 which was hilarious because obviously, uh, the unseen can't be measured like so he starts talking about how the 01:31:38.140 --> 01:31:42.300 model of the universe was that the earth was in the middle and then everyone thought that 01:31:42.460 --> 01:31:47.020 Uh people were crazy for thinking the sun was in the middle. So they executed gal leo 01:31:47.020 --> 01:31:50.700 But turns out gal leo was right and so they get this little so slow first 01:31:50.700 --> 01:31:55.340 I was talking about a little persecution thing going on where it's like everyone thinks we're wrong about religion 01:31:55.340 --> 01:32:02.460 But we're gonna be right and science proves it except when science is wrong it changes and your religion 01:32:03.100 --> 01:32:10.540 Can't seem to change and is fighting tooth and nail to revert an entire country backwards in time with your outdated morals 01:32:10.700 --> 01:32:14.380 and not understanding how health care works or 01:32:14.380 --> 01:32:16.380 Being able to somehow 01:32:16.940 --> 01:32:22.460 Conjure out any political ideology you want from a by the bible that doesn't talk about anything 01:32:22.860 --> 01:32:26.700 And so I think it's kind of stupid to try and argue. There's a correct answer in religion 01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:30.720 Especially through science when it can't be measured or observed 01:32:31.020 --> 01:32:35.980 It's kind of a dumb analogy on his part and I just wanted to feel bad about it just a little bit 01:32:37.900 --> 01:32:40.860 And then yeah, did you want to say something nope, okay 01:32:40.860 --> 01:32:43.580 I'm sorry. That's fine. What a great co-host 01:32:45.740 --> 01:32:52.300 I i'm ryan. I have zero thoughts. I have a lot of thoughts. Just not on that. Nope 01:32:53.660 --> 01:32:57.020 I mean that was pretty clear cut and dry. I just wanted to make fun of slow for a little bit but 01:32:57.740 --> 01:33:01.900 Also, it sets up for his ending that we'll talk about and then 01:33:02.620 --> 01:33:09.180 D tells the person to take a comparative religion study, which is also funny because then 01:33:09.180 --> 01:33:14.540 Like you just point the skeptic lens at christianity and then you're back at the same place where 01:33:14.940 --> 01:33:18.940 Fighting about religions is stupid and why can't we all just coexist kind of thing? 01:33:18.940 --> 01:33:22.940 Oh, yeah, they hate it on the whole coexist thing. I forgot 01:33:23.900 --> 01:33:25.100 Yeah 01:33:25.100 --> 01:33:30.460 Yeah, the whole coexist movement thing isn't to say that all religions lead to the same place 01:33:30.460 --> 01:33:36.380 Maybe some people say that but I don't think that's really the meaning. I think it is more about religious freedom 01:33:36.860 --> 01:33:38.860 like 01:33:38.860 --> 01:33:42.940 Let people believe what they believe and coexist 01:33:43.500 --> 01:33:45.340 Literally, it's in the word 01:33:45.340 --> 01:33:46.140 Yeah 01:33:46.140 --> 01:33:47.340 God 01:33:47.340 --> 01:33:48.940 No 01:33:48.940 --> 01:33:53.740 I don't know why they get they do this every episode where they like somehow find a way just to get like 01:33:53.880 --> 01:34:00.300 Super tribalistic about something instead of like like maybe thinking about this in a different way and like being less 01:34:00.940 --> 01:34:05.100 Like tribalistic about it, but it's like nah full in on the exclusionary 01:34:05.100 --> 01:34:10.160 Religion, like we're just gonna really commit and I guess that's kind of their job. So 01:34:11.440 --> 01:34:17.040 See, like I said, if we just persecute them more than they won't have time to focus on politics 01:34:17.600 --> 01:34:19.600 I don't understand how they can like 01:34:20.080 --> 01:34:25.440 Harp so because you were talking about religious freedom and like I don't understand how christians can harp so much on religious freedom 01:34:25.440 --> 01:34:29.040 when literally what they're doing what they claim is religious freedom is 01:34:29.440 --> 01:34:33.680 Taking away the freedoms of other religions exactly. Yeah, it makes no sense 01:34:33.680 --> 01:34:35.680 It's not supposed to make sense 01:34:36.320 --> 01:34:40.960 It's just supposed to be right. No, they say it's they say it makes sense. They seem to 01:34:41.680 --> 01:34:46.800 Say like I heard the word logical so many times in that episode like just got to think logically 01:34:47.920 --> 01:34:54.480 Analytically like they if if I'm supposed to think about it logically, it should be making sense logically 01:34:55.040 --> 01:34:57.040 And it does not 01:34:57.120 --> 01:34:59.920 Well, because like they built a world 01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:03.760 They built a world like they built an education system 01:35:03.760 --> 01:35:08.560 I guess where this all makes sense inside of it like you don't think about it 01:35:08.560 --> 01:35:10.640 It just makes sense like growing up 01:35:10.720 --> 01:35:15.520 I didn't think about any of this and then I started thinking about it and then it all fell apart like and it's 01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:19.120 Yeah, and 70 percent if that number is even real 01:35:19.120 --> 01:35:25.200 I don't even know but like if 70 percent of young people go to college for one year and leave the faith like 01:35:25.200 --> 01:35:32.400 I think you're doing something wrong where like one year of gen ed classes or like having a little bit of freedom can just like 01:35:32.480 --> 01:35:37.680 Top of an entire like having a little bit of exposure to other types of people in the world 01:35:38.480 --> 01:35:45.120 And realize and realizing that you actually can't treat people the way that you told me to have conversations with them at bus stop 01:35:46.160 --> 01:35:49.760 Nobody talks at the bus stop like I don't know the fuck that's about but like 01:35:49.760 --> 01:35:55.440 I've never talked to anyone a bus stop or a train stop like no i'm not doing that 01:35:56.240 --> 01:35:58.240 also just that 01:35:58.240 --> 01:36:00.240 It's just not a natural conversation 01:36:01.440 --> 01:36:05.280 Yeah, and if I do talk to someone it's sure not gonna be about religion. That's for sure 01:36:06.960 --> 01:36:10.080 Hey you waiting on the bus. Yeah, how you feel about god? 01:36:11.760 --> 01:36:17.920 But that's what they like they set that up of like that's what you're supposed to do because like if you truly believe 01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:24.720 In a literal hell where people will burn for eternity like you should be doing that. You should do nothing else 01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:30.100 That's why I don't think that they could deep down tell me that they believe in eternal damnation 01:36:30.760 --> 01:36:35.680 Because like you would be out there trying to tell everyone every second of your entire life 01:36:35.920 --> 01:36:42.000 And like instead you're teaching bible to a bunch of students so that they can keep their faith 01:36:42.080 --> 01:36:46.840 Instead of like going finding new converts like I just don't believe that they can deep down actually 01:36:46.840 --> 01:36:48.840 believe in eternal damnation 01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:56.040 They indoctrinate soldiers to go out and indoctrinate other people for them. Oh, so it's a pyramid scheme 01:36:56.920 --> 01:36:58.920 Yes, it's all a pyramid scheme 01:36:59.880 --> 01:37:03.720 The christian mary k let's get it right. It's multi-level marketing guys. Come on 01:37:04.520 --> 01:37:06.520 I don't know. I forgot 01:37:06.920 --> 01:37:11.000 But like no seriously like do they sit down and watch tv? 01:37:11.000 --> 01:37:18.280 Because that's time they could be like converting people and saving them from eternal fire and like it's just I 01:37:18.440 --> 01:37:20.280 Don't I don't believe there's a literal hell 01:37:20.280 --> 01:37:22.200 I don't believe there's anything like that 01:37:22.200 --> 01:37:27.720 But like I didn't I can't even say that I would have believed in that being a real thing past like having super 01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:30.440 Hardcore end times anxiety about it 01:37:30.520 --> 01:37:37.240 But like it's just I don't know like if people are gonna die and then burn and suffer forever 01:37:37.240 --> 01:37:43.320 like and you're gonna and you believe that you're going to heaven to like be happy and as d said and 01:37:43.800 --> 01:37:45.800 constant state of orgasm 01:37:46.360 --> 01:37:48.360 That's like why would you not spend your 01:37:50.360 --> 01:37:52.360 Sure day 01:37:52.360 --> 01:38:02.440 Uh, I hate that I hate that a lot. Mm heaven sounds great. Yep. There's no marriage in heaven 01:38:02.440 --> 01:38:05.240 But at least there's constant orgasm. Yeah, who needs marriage? 01:38:08.040 --> 01:38:10.040 That's all marriage is for 01:38:11.640 --> 01:38:16.040 Making soldiers for the lord, maybe but fill your quiver with arrows 01:38:16.040 --> 01:38:18.760 I don't know why you would be wasting your time here 01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:27.400 In their words wasting your time here by not evangelizing all of the time humans have limitations chris. Okay, gotta identify your weaknesses 01:38:28.360 --> 01:38:35.320 No one can do that. No one can exist that way. Well, then what's the point then ryan? You're right. What is the point? 01:38:36.680 --> 01:38:38.680 I don't know 01:38:38.680 --> 01:38:46.280 Like if you feel like your purpose is to evangelize to save people from hell and you can't even do that all day every day 01:38:46.280 --> 01:38:50.120 Then what even was the point like you should feel bad about yourself 01:38:52.120 --> 01:38:54.120 I feel pretty great about myself 01:38:54.520 --> 01:38:56.680 Yeah, but you don't believe any of that. So you're fine 01:38:57.160 --> 01:39:01.400 Yeah, I don't know what I believe. So yeah, you should feel pretty great about that, too 01:39:01.960 --> 01:39:03.960 Yeah, but you don't believe any of that. So you're fine 01:39:03.960 --> 01:39:09.560 Yeah, I don't know what I believe. So yeah, you should feel pretty great about that, too. I'm just here 01:39:10.360 --> 01:39:12.360 completely valid completely 01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:16.600 See, I feel like most people at least for me 01:39:16.680 --> 01:39:23.480 It wasn't like I found a set of beliefs. The core belief is that I can't ever have 100% certainty on any belief 01:39:23.560 --> 01:39:31.320 That's my core ground foundation for my existence now because I can never be 100 sure about anything and I live based on that 01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:33.400 I'm not spiritual at all 01:39:33.400 --> 01:39:39.880 And I live in the observable universe. So I follow that and I don't care. You're not spiritual at all 01:39:40.440 --> 01:39:41.400 No 01:39:41.400 --> 01:39:46.680 Not at all. Well, what if you think of spirituality as the things in the universe that we can't sense? 01:39:48.040 --> 01:39:50.040 Well, we better be able to sense it soon 01:39:51.000 --> 01:39:53.000 What if we can never but we like know it's there? 01:39:53.560 --> 01:39:55.800 Well, if we know it's there, how do we know it's there? 01:39:56.440 --> 01:39:58.440 dark matter a gravitation 01:39:58.440 --> 01:40:03.800 Like things being affected by by mass that's not there. No, like it's not spiritual though 01:40:04.360 --> 01:40:09.160 You can know i'm saying think of different dimensions as being the spiritual realm 01:40:09.160 --> 01:40:13.720 I feel like people could get things that they don't understand or can't see mixed up with 01:40:14.200 --> 01:40:18.120 Spirits or something. So really they're just one in the same. Okay, that's fair 01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:22.280 I can see that I see what I see what you're saying. I don't know if I agree with it 01:40:22.360 --> 01:40:23.720 I'll think about it 01:40:23.720 --> 01:40:29.480 But no, but you're right like that's kind of how religion came out of things is like things that people didn't understand 01:40:29.480 --> 01:40:32.200 Right like the sun people worshiped the sun 01:40:32.680 --> 01:40:35.560 Okay, who wouldn't worship the sun? Nothing's badass exactly 01:40:35.560 --> 01:40:41.080 but now we can see way farther than the sun and see things bigger and even greater than the sun and like 01:40:41.800 --> 01:40:48.200 Like the black hole that's like a hundred million times the size of the sun. Yeah, what's in there? We don't know 01:40:48.200 --> 01:40:53.560 I mean we kind of do though, but that's all physical all based on assumptions and guesses 01:40:54.280 --> 01:40:58.040 Yeah, but it's physical like I see what you're saying about spiritual being things 01:40:58.040 --> 01:41:02.520 We don't understand what do you mean something's physical if it's just within the three dimensions that we have 01:41:02.840 --> 01:41:07.000 Like if we can't touch it, it's not physical time is a fourth dimension 01:41:07.240 --> 01:41:14.520 Right really exists. I'm just saying if there's something out there that we can't perceive but other such beings could touch 01:41:14.520 --> 01:41:20.920 Like that would be physical too, but not physical to us physical is relative. Yeah, right. I see what you're saying 01:41:20.920 --> 01:41:22.120 I see what you're saying 01:41:22.120 --> 01:41:28.040 But what I'm saying is I don't focus on that because it's a waste of my life to worry about it 01:41:28.040 --> 01:41:30.040 Oh, it's not worrying is curiosity 01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:33.480 Curiosities fun not knowing is fun 01:41:33.480 --> 01:41:39.080 If you find joy and not knowing things then you can just be happy the rest of your life because you're never gonna know anything 01:41:39.560 --> 01:41:41.560 What do you think about the multiverse? 01:41:41.560 --> 01:41:46.440 Could we be in a simulation real could be real who knows can't be certain about it 01:41:46.920 --> 01:41:51.500 I'm pretty convinced in the simulation, but I like the idea of multiverses 01:41:52.420 --> 01:41:53.640 simulation 01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:55.640 makes sense I 01:41:55.720 --> 01:41:58.600 Don't care either way. Nothing changes for me 01:41:58.600 --> 01:42:00.360 I don't think a lot about the multiverse 01:42:00.360 --> 01:42:06.920 But I like to think about what other planets there are and what kind of people live on those planets and whether those planets are 01:42:06.920 --> 01:42:08.920 as fucked up as earth 01:42:09.240 --> 01:42:10.680 probably 01:42:10.680 --> 01:42:12.680 And then at the end of the episode 01:42:13.240 --> 01:42:16.680 Sloper says follow the science. I don't know. Well 01:42:19.160 --> 01:42:24.040 Just follow the science doesn't that fix everything these days just say 01:42:26.040 --> 01:42:27.560 That's it 01:42:27.560 --> 01:42:32.520 Like he's got a big point there and like is really owning the libs but like oh my god 01:42:33.320 --> 01:42:39.720 What a stupid misunderstanding of science and like it so scares me so much every time I listen to these guys that like 01:42:39.720 --> 01:42:45.320 They teach children how to like think and then they just do these little owns all the time 01:42:45.560 --> 01:42:49.320 And it's super annoying is like like I don't think you understand how science works 01:42:49.560 --> 01:42:56.280 First off and like what the whole slogan follow the science means, but it doesn't lead to your religion. That's for sure 01:42:57.000 --> 01:43:02.760 I hate that so much that he said that it really pissed me off for the student who initially asked about their friend 01:43:03.060 --> 01:43:09.000 Deconverting, I understand that that can be a very concerning thing based on 01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:11.800 The world view that you may have I would suggest 01:43:12.040 --> 01:43:16.920 Instead of just looking for ways to try to see or try to get your friend to see the way 01:43:17.240 --> 01:43:22.520 That you see things I would suggest to try to see how they see things learn about their world view 01:43:22.520 --> 01:43:27.160 You don't just be thinking about how you can discredit their world view, but actually learn from it 01:43:27.160 --> 01:43:33.320 They may have ideas and concepts that you can benefit from they have a different way of seeing things 01:43:33.320 --> 01:43:37.560 And that can help you understand the world and other people within that world, too 01:43:37.560 --> 01:43:42.920 It's not just something to try to remove from that person, but you can learn from them and they can learn from you 01:43:43.400 --> 01:43:46.280 so all in all don't just go trying to 01:43:47.320 --> 01:43:53.240 Convert them back to christianity. They are another person going through life. You can't choose your beliefs 01:43:53.320 --> 01:43:56.760 Those are not a thing and if anyone tells you you can choose what you believe 01:43:57.400 --> 01:43:59.400 They are most likely wrong, you know 01:43:59.480 --> 01:44:03.560 Just go and try to give up your world view for a day and come back to it 01:44:03.560 --> 01:44:09.720 You're not going to be able to do it beliefs aren't your choices, but you can learn from other people's beliefs and gain more wisdom 01:44:09.720 --> 01:44:17.240 And understanding by knowing more and more of other people's beliefs and perspectives. They are very beneficial and will help you in the rest of your life 01:44:17.320 --> 01:44:19.080 That's all I gotta say 01:44:19.080 --> 01:44:20.600 well said 01:44:20.600 --> 01:44:27.080 If you are this former student or any former student or want to reach out at all, please email us at 01:44:27.880 --> 01:44:28.920 hey at 01:44:28.920 --> 01:44:35.320 Hallway transgressions.com. We'd love to hear from you and all that. Thank you listeners. Have a good night 01:44:35.320 --> 01:44:59.800 And we love you. Bye. Bye. Love you You