WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.200 Welcome to hallway transgressions. I'm Chris. I'm Ryan. 00:03.420 --> 00:10.840 We are two private school alumni and this podcast serves to examine the worldviews of Christian pastors and teachers through a postmodern lens. 00:11.400 --> 00:16.060 Content warning this episode contains explicit blatant transphobia and homophobia. 00:16.060 --> 00:23.060 Please listen at your own risk. Some content may be alarming to listeners. Trigger warning this episode can discusses topics that may be 00:23.060 --> 00:29.440 controversial offensive or triggering nature to some individuals. Listen at your own risk. Hey Ryan, what's your bright spot? 00:30.040 --> 00:35.520 All right, so I think last time I said my bright spot was that we got the cat's 00:36.000 --> 00:39.640 harnesses, which I don't know if we got dog harnesses before we got the new ones. 00:39.640 --> 00:46.460 They fit way better than the the dog harnesses we got but now the new thing that we got just came in today was two 00:46.460 --> 00:53.180 backpacks to carry the cats in so now we're gonna be able to put them into their own little 00:53.300 --> 00:58.860 backpacks take them on a hike somewhere or something and then let them outside like sit down somewhere 00:59.260 --> 01:03.980 probably and then put them on their leashes and let them out and see if they want to explore or just chill. 01:03.980 --> 01:08.320 They're they were outside cats at one point so we didn't want them to be completely indoor 01:08.320 --> 01:10.740 so we wanted a way for them to be able to go outside. 01:10.740 --> 01:16.940 So we're excited to get them used to the backpack so we can take them out. Is it backpacks that you wear? 01:17.060 --> 01:21.220 Yeah, so it's it's a backpack that we would wear that is like a carrier. 01:21.220 --> 01:26.960 So the cat goes inside of the backpack and it has like venting things and whatnot. It has like a Sherpa lined 01:27.480 --> 01:34.740 floor piece and yeah, so and then they can be like there's like a little string that you can attach and hook them to the 01:34.740 --> 01:36.740 backpack so they can't like jump out and escape. 01:36.740 --> 01:43.780 That's pretty cool. Yeah, we we tried putting them in there Nezuko was fine with it. She she was chilling. 01:43.780 --> 01:46.860 I was walking around the apartment with her in my backpack and she was fine. 01:47.060 --> 01:51.020 Kiri on the other hand was not having it. She was just kind of crying the whole time. 01:51.020 --> 01:56.080 So now we have we're doing the same thing we did with their normal carriers where I have the backpacks 01:56.580 --> 02:01.060 just by their carriers and I'm putting their food into the backpacks now. 02:01.060 --> 02:05.820 So I'll put them in there and they'll associate being inside the backpacks with good things such as eating. 02:05.820 --> 02:12.340 Yeah, so hopefully they'll enjoy that and we'll get to have adventuring cats. We'll find out. 02:12.340 --> 02:15.580 So anyways, what is your bright spot? 02:15.660 --> 02:21.980 You know, my bright spot is well last week I cut my finger open and that was great. 02:22.020 --> 02:24.300 Well this week I didn't do that. 02:24.300 --> 02:29.500 And also, you know, I was just really excited to do this podcast and get it ready to go. 02:29.500 --> 02:34.540 So actually seeing it on real podcast feeds is super cool and super great. 02:34.540 --> 02:40.020 I'm just really happy that the response has been super good for five listeners. 02:40.020 --> 02:43.220 And yeah, just happy to being able to do this. 02:43.700 --> 02:48.300 Yeah, our few listeners seem to be excited for another episode. 02:48.300 --> 02:51.300 Yeah, they seem to be excited for this specific episode. 02:51.300 --> 02:53.300 Yeah, yeah, I think so. 02:54.700 --> 03:03.300 Oh, I also wanted to say that last time I said that bullying works and I just wanted to clarify that I don't condone bullying. 03:03.300 --> 03:05.620 Yeah, me neither. Bullying is stupid. 03:06.660 --> 03:12.060 It was just a really specific joke from a different podcast and we're just going to leave it at that. 03:12.060 --> 03:29.260 Anyway, before we get started with this podcast specifically, I want to just, you know, ahead of time apologize for me and Chris having to be the ones to represent the LGBTQ plus community. 03:29.260 --> 03:34.780 We for I mean, speaking for myself, at least I am a cisgender straight white man. 03:35.300 --> 03:40.620 I really am not in a like the best place to be a representative for this. 03:40.620 --> 03:42.020 I want to be an ally. 03:42.020 --> 03:44.100 I want to do what I can. 03:44.100 --> 03:47.060 But again, I am still ignorant on a lot of these things. 03:47.060 --> 03:52.580 So I just want to apologize for anything that me or Chris gets wrong in this podcast. 03:52.580 --> 03:57.700 We're trying to do our best, but we know that impact can be different than intent. 03:57.700 --> 03:59.420 So we apologize. 03:59.860 --> 04:01.260 Yeah, yeah, same for me. 04:01.260 --> 04:04.020 Please reach out if we get anything wrong. 04:04.020 --> 04:06.220 We'd love to correct anything at all. 04:06.220 --> 04:08.940 Like, we're still learning as we go, of course. 04:08.940 --> 04:12.820 So please reach out if you have any comments or concerns. 04:14.140 --> 04:16.700 And with that, let us begin. 04:17.060 --> 04:26.420 So we're responding to we're skipping ahead from in season three, we're skipping to the episode that dropped on April 18th. 04:26.420 --> 04:35.740 Season three, episode 17, the title from zero prep to a major conversation, same sex attraction and gender identity. 04:35.740 --> 04:40.180 Their description for this episode is the guys were a little behind on show prep this week, 04:40.180 --> 04:45.060 but they end up discussing a massively important topic, same sex attraction and gender identity. 04:45.060 --> 04:49.620 They touch on logic and rationale, social and emotional factors and the Christian response. 04:49.620 --> 04:50.900 Don't miss this one. 04:50.900 --> 04:52.940 Yeah, and we sure didn't miss it. 04:52.940 --> 04:56.540 What was your first reaction when you saw this in your feed, Ryan? 04:56.540 --> 05:01.780 I thought it was going to be interesting to hear what they had to say. 05:01.780 --> 05:02.900 I didn't know. 05:02.900 --> 05:07.260 I really didn't know what it was going to be, but I knew it probably wasn't going to be good. 05:07.260 --> 05:16.140 Yeah, I think my first reaction when I read it was just a pure, pure dread and just internal just pain. 05:16.140 --> 05:21.380 Yeah, this I didn't write any notes for the previous episode. 05:21.380 --> 05:23.540 I've got what, three for this one. 05:23.540 --> 05:25.500 So it's a doozy. 05:25.500 --> 05:32.620 It took me, I don't know, it's one of their longer episodes at about 50 minutes long, 05:32.620 --> 05:36.780 and it took me about three days to get all the way through. 05:36.780 --> 05:38.340 I mean, it was just painful for me. 05:38.340 --> 05:39.580 It was very frustrating. 05:39.580 --> 05:43.540 They have an attitude of knowing. 05:43.540 --> 05:51.340 They seem to be very confident in their position of, I mean, obviously not too much of a spoiler. 05:51.340 --> 05:54.780 But they are very transphobic and very homophobic. 05:54.780 --> 06:02.980 And they seem very confident in their understanding of gender dysphoria and same sex attraction. 06:02.980 --> 06:07.620 And I mean, really just the LGBTQ plus community in general. 06:07.620 --> 06:12.980 And it was a lot of, it just felt really a very cocky attitude to me. 06:12.980 --> 06:13.860 Oh, yeah. 06:13.860 --> 06:18.660 And what gets me the most is the like pity that's behind it. 06:18.660 --> 06:24.820 It's not all just, we know what we're talking about, but it's like they pity people that 06:24.820 --> 06:28.180 in quotes struggle with that. 06:28.180 --> 06:34.620 Like the whole time is like feigned care that like they really just care about these people. 06:34.620 --> 06:38.700 And that's why they do it, say the things they do. 06:38.700 --> 06:40.820 And it's just rough. 06:40.820 --> 06:44.620 We'll get to specifics eventually later in this episode. 06:44.620 --> 06:48.740 Let's start out at the beginning. 06:48.740 --> 06:54.980 So I was surprised in this episode, they really jumped in to their topic very early. 06:54.980 --> 06:59.620 I feel like most of their episodes, they spend a couple, like maybe 10 minutes out of a 30 06:59.620 --> 07:02.340 minute episode just catching up. 07:02.340 --> 07:08.340 Yeah, they start with what sounds like there was some talk before they started recording 07:08.340 --> 07:14.020 because they made some sort of pregnancy joke. 07:14.020 --> 07:15.220 That's how it starts. 07:15.220 --> 07:17.580 Like Slow Fur's back. 07:17.580 --> 07:19.100 Are you like pregnant with energy? 07:19.100 --> 07:27.380 I don't know what the context was of that, of such a joke. 07:27.380 --> 07:29.660 Slow Fur, how are you hanging in there? 07:29.660 --> 07:33.140 Are you vibrant right now? 07:33.140 --> 07:35.340 Are you pregnant with energy? 07:35.340 --> 07:37.900 I'm not pregnant with, yeah. 07:37.900 --> 07:44.260 I guess if we're using that phraseology, I have delivered. 07:44.260 --> 07:45.260 Yeah. 07:45.260 --> 07:50.660 And then they go on to D likes to complain that he can't say pregnant woman anymore. 07:50.660 --> 07:53.900 It's pregnant person because we wouldn't want to assume anything. 07:53.900 --> 07:57.940 We're in the days of, you know, pregnancy. 07:57.940 --> 07:59.460 You can't say pregnant woman. 07:59.460 --> 08:00.660 It's pregnant person. 08:00.660 --> 08:02.460 So yes, that's right. 08:02.460 --> 08:03.940 We don't want to assume anything. 08:03.940 --> 08:04.940 Right. 08:04.940 --> 08:05.940 That's right. 08:05.940 --> 08:08.140 So it's just so passive. 08:08.140 --> 08:10.140 Yeah, it's just it started. 08:10.140 --> 08:14.500 That's the very beginning of the episode is with that. 08:14.500 --> 08:19.220 And you just know, I really turn it up to 100 there. 08:19.220 --> 08:20.220 It's just rude. 08:20.220 --> 08:28.140 They have a basic misunderstanding of the situations that like the situation of ungendering 08:28.140 --> 08:35.780 language is just where it's the left is trying to create more of a safe space for everyone. 08:35.780 --> 08:36.780 Yeah. 08:36.780 --> 08:42.020 Safe space for everyone because we've got people that really want their dichotomy, their 08:42.020 --> 08:44.060 two boxes to put everyone in. 08:44.060 --> 08:48.120 And then there's reality, which is just everyone's similar to each other. 08:48.120 --> 08:53.060 And it's not like there's guys and girls like people really want to have these separations 08:53.060 --> 08:56.680 when really I feel like there's just such a wide mix. 08:56.680 --> 08:59.620 Like people like to use the term spectrum for a lot of things. 08:59.620 --> 09:04.340 I don't know if there's a better term, but just in reality, I just see people as people. 09:04.340 --> 09:10.580 There are women that are manlier than certain men and whatnot, like based on our gender 09:10.580 --> 09:11.580 stereotypes. 09:11.580 --> 09:15.780 Like, if we just got rid of that, then everyone just see everyone as similar to themselves, 09:15.780 --> 09:17.940 not as like how they're different. 09:17.940 --> 09:21.500 Like we really want to differentiate and I don't get it. 09:21.500 --> 09:25.140 Call people women if you know them and that's how they identify. 09:25.140 --> 09:30.880 Like we're not like it's not trying to remove the concept of a man and a woman from language. 09:30.880 --> 09:34.660 It's just removing it from official language so everyone feels included. 09:34.660 --> 09:39.100 And it's really insulting to just make such a casual, callous joke like three minutes 09:39.100 --> 09:40.420 into a podcast. 09:40.420 --> 09:41.420 Yep. 09:41.420 --> 09:44.980 But it really just, I guess, sets everything else up for the rest of this episode. 09:44.980 --> 09:46.180 Sure does. 09:46.180 --> 09:52.280 So it starts with Luke Johnson talking about YouTube kids, which leads to Slow for talking 09:52.280 --> 09:55.900 about teachers and whatnot. 09:55.900 --> 10:02.540 He is kind of vague about it, but it has to do with, I don't even know because it's so 10:02.540 --> 10:05.180 vague and like there's a lot of problems with YouTube kids. 10:05.180 --> 10:08.500 It's kind of funny because there's a ton of problems with YouTube kids and they just pick 10:08.500 --> 10:13.520 like something that's such a non-issue to go after and it's really weird. 10:13.520 --> 10:19.900 They just don't like the idea of educating kids about gender identity because this, here's 10:19.900 --> 10:26.700 a specific quote that got me really good, at around like three minutes and 15 seconds, 10:26.700 --> 10:31.260 Luke Johnson goes, quote, it's infuriating when you mess with kids. 10:31.260 --> 10:33.420 I don't like that, unquote. 10:33.420 --> 10:38.100 And the thing is, I think that's why we started this podcast because we don't like when they 10:38.100 --> 10:39.620 mess with kids. 10:39.620 --> 10:45.060 Like it's just funny because that's what I think about their podcast as well. 10:45.060 --> 10:48.380 It's like you guys are messing with kids. 10:48.380 --> 10:53.220 Yeah, because their main audience, I mean, after looking through their podcast description, 10:53.220 --> 10:56.940 I haven't listened to all the episodes, but a lot of the questions come from students 10:56.940 --> 10:58.900 and just graduated students. 10:58.900 --> 11:03.900 So their audience is made up of people they teach daily and that's what's so concerning 11:03.900 --> 11:04.900 to me. 11:04.900 --> 11:10.020 This is like a public representation and just a public record of what they teach in the 11:10.020 --> 11:14.540 classroom to these kids every day and how they interact with these kids and what their 11:14.540 --> 11:16.740 curriculum and what their inner thoughts are. 11:16.740 --> 11:23.900 And that's what concerns me so much because it's so backwards and problematic and frustrating 11:23.900 --> 11:24.900 to hear. 11:24.900 --> 11:31.420 And I just really worry about the kids in Lakewood and graduating Lakewood as they enter 11:31.420 --> 11:37.500 real life, they leave the safe space of a Christian private school into what life is 11:37.500 --> 11:44.660 actually like where you leave the good and evil binary of Lakewood and move into the 11:44.660 --> 11:47.100 gray that is normal life. 11:47.100 --> 11:51.540 It's confusing and it's difficult and it sticks with you. 11:51.540 --> 11:53.060 It sticks with you for a long time. 11:53.060 --> 11:54.660 It's hard to get rid of. 11:54.660 --> 11:58.740 But once you do get rid of it, life is much better in my opinion. 11:58.740 --> 12:04.700 Yeah, I don't know if it can or if I can actually get rid of everything. 12:04.700 --> 12:09.780 There are just certain postures I take towards situations that I don't consciously notice 12:09.780 --> 12:14.020 that was trying to me or just like ideals and stuff. 12:14.020 --> 12:18.740 There's a part of it that I would say was good and I can use it's good, but there's 12:18.740 --> 12:23.940 a lot that I had to recognize and deal with and become aware of. 12:23.940 --> 12:28.940 It took a bit of work and it was really just because I went to school for Bible and religion. 12:28.940 --> 12:33.860 I don't know how or like what how it would be different if I didn't do that. 12:33.860 --> 12:39.140 Yeah, I feel like the few classmates I still talk to and hang out with, we all have kind 12:39.140 --> 12:44.500 of a similar story of like learning very quickly in school. 12:44.500 --> 12:48.220 I know mine was a who wrote the Bible class. 12:48.220 --> 12:54.780 I took it IU that was like reading the Bible just as a literary device and not as a scripture 12:54.780 --> 13:00.860 where it started to unravel and ask questions I've never asked before and start to view 13:00.860 --> 13:04.220 Christianity more as just one of a bunch of religions. 13:04.220 --> 13:11.580 The semester after that I took a class about Judaism, Islam and Christianity together and 13:11.580 --> 13:16.620 I think there was a lot of added context and understanding that came from how these religions 13:16.620 --> 13:23.140 were created, like how similar they are, their holy texts grew up together really. 13:23.140 --> 13:29.040 Stuff like that that was missing from my liquid education that added a lot more context to 13:29.040 --> 13:31.540 religion and Christianity specifically. 13:31.540 --> 13:36.460 Right, I think like they were I felt like I was taught more how to respond to other 13:36.460 --> 13:39.340 people than to learn for myself what I believed. 13:39.340 --> 13:46.780 Like like they that's later on they talk about grooming, but I was being trained to be some 13:46.780 --> 13:52.580 little apologist basically like you need to be able to defend what you believe. 13:52.580 --> 13:54.620 But it's like what if I don't know what I believe? 13:54.620 --> 13:55.620 It doesn't matter. 13:55.620 --> 13:56.620 Use these tactics. 13:56.620 --> 13:57.620 Yeah. 13:57.620 --> 14:03.460 Well, I think that's interesting as because technically 10th and 11th grade Bible was 14:03.460 --> 14:09.500 supposed to do that for you, but it was so much book work and like the right answer was 14:09.500 --> 14:16.380 very specifically the Baptist view that there wasn't any room to almost discover what you 14:16.380 --> 14:17.380 believe. 14:17.380 --> 14:20.260 It was more just like you were saying it was more like I know how to answer this question 14:20.260 --> 14:25.780 based on the Baptist view of Christianity or the Baptist view of theology versus I know 14:25.780 --> 14:30.060 how to answer this because this is what I think about God and how I believe in God and 14:30.060 --> 14:32.900 it was structured in that way. 14:32.900 --> 14:39.500 Specifically I'm arguably structured in that way so that you almost become Baptist and 14:39.500 --> 14:45.180 then you take UTT and then you become an apologist for this very specific view of Christianity. 14:45.180 --> 14:47.300 Right. 14:47.300 --> 14:53.860 The kids profiles on all of these platforms and there is a tweet that linked to a video 14:53.860 --> 15:03.260 of someone clicking on YouTube kids and just all of this quote unquote education on the 15:03.260 --> 15:06.660 difference between sex and gender and how they're not always the same thing and they 15:06.660 --> 15:15.500 don't always line up and but it's like marketed towards kids and man I tell you what infuriating 15:15.500 --> 15:17.300 when you mess with kids. 15:17.300 --> 15:19.260 I don't like that. 15:19.260 --> 15:23.860 He doesn't use the word grooming in this part I don't believe but later he does for other 15:23.860 --> 15:30.060 things but he's saying without saying that he thinks the left is grooming kids and to 15:30.060 --> 15:36.260 thinking it's okay to be LGBTQ plus which to be clear it is totally fine for that to 15:36.260 --> 15:37.460 happen. 15:37.460 --> 15:40.220 It's who you are and that's okay. 15:40.220 --> 15:43.100 Really they're grooming kids but anyway whatever. 15:43.100 --> 15:48.740 So after talking about YouTube kids for like maybe 30 seconds Slopher jumps into some stuff 15:48.740 --> 15:53.700 he saw on not the not the B.com. 15:53.700 --> 15:57.580 We talked about the Babylon B last episode. 15:57.580 --> 15:59.700 Arguably we talked about that far too long. 15:59.700 --> 16:08.460 I had a lot to say and so not the B is their sister website run by the same people. 16:08.460 --> 16:15.220 So one of the creators and editors Seth Dillon has described the not the B website as a humor 16:15.220 --> 16:19.260 based entertainment site that offers commentary on stories that are so outrageous they should 16:19.260 --> 16:21.500 be satire but somehow aren't. 16:21.500 --> 16:30.900 It's a website where they let opinion editors talk shit about people center left to far 16:30.900 --> 16:35.600 left and just generally just be assholes. 16:35.600 --> 16:41.500 They have they have the same three topics as the Babylon B most notably right now is 16:41.500 --> 16:47.300 just unbelievable amounts of transphobia and homophobia because of the quote unquote don't 16:47.300 --> 16:48.300 say gay bill. 16:48.300 --> 16:52.660 We'll get to that in a second but I just wanted to mention something first. 16:52.660 --> 16:56.620 So Slopher is talking about an article specifically in here. 16:56.620 --> 17:01.660 It's titled Transgender Teacher Tells Six Year Old Students About Transgenderism Says 17:01.660 --> 17:08.220 Doctors Make a Guess About Whether a Baby is a Boy or a Girl with the confused thinking 17:08.220 --> 17:13.540 face emoji. 17:13.540 --> 17:19.900 And so they're making fun of them thinking that this teacher is a biologist or doctor. 17:19.900 --> 17:27.820 Like a teacher's aide and talking to second graders about saying he was transgender and 17:27.820 --> 17:33.980 then describing to them what it was and was saying things like sometimes the doctor when 17:33.980 --> 17:39.780 you're born looks at you know your physical makeup and your anatomy and guesses what you 17:39.780 --> 17:42.020 might be but sometimes they get it wrong. 17:42.020 --> 17:45.620 Seriously I'm a doctor in medical school and I'm right. 17:45.620 --> 17:51.940 I think a boy yes at this year in this particular person speaking must have been a biologist 17:51.940 --> 17:56.000 evidently so to make such a call. 17:56.000 --> 18:01.700 I think he was more saying that doctors assign a sex at birth but it's more of like a guess 18:01.700 --> 18:06.260 at their gender and what their gender identity is going to be. 18:06.260 --> 18:13.660 And since the sex that was assigned at birth did not match his gender identity he had to 18:13.660 --> 18:19.820 come out like he said when he turned 18 he told everyone he was actually a boy because 18:19.820 --> 18:22.460 his gender identity was that he was a boy. 18:22.460 --> 18:25.180 And so the doctor guessed at that. 18:25.180 --> 18:27.120 That's how I understood it. 18:27.120 --> 18:31.500 And so then he came out that he was a boy and everyone treated him well and he seemed 18:31.500 --> 18:33.820 to be happy which is cool. 18:33.820 --> 18:36.300 It doesn't always work that way. 18:36.300 --> 18:41.260 But I also was just going to say like they were making fun of the idea that doctors guess 18:41.260 --> 18:44.980 and I just want to know what they think doctors do all day. 18:44.980 --> 18:50.040 Like you go in they'll see patients they'll hear their symptoms do some tests and make 18:50.040 --> 18:52.220 an educated guess at what it is. 18:52.220 --> 18:55.420 Like that's all doctors do is make guesses. 18:55.420 --> 18:56.420 Why. 18:56.420 --> 19:01.220 Why are they so like they got so defensive of doctors making guesses. 19:01.220 --> 19:03.940 Like doctors are always right. 19:03.940 --> 19:08.900 Doctors who went to medical school so they know exactly what's happening in every single 19:08.900 --> 19:12.260 person they wouldn't guess their doctors. 19:12.260 --> 19:17.380 Like I think they need to lower their view of doctors like their people do. 19:17.380 --> 19:21.180 They went to school to be able to make educated guesses. 19:21.180 --> 19:22.180 Doctors can be wrong. 19:22.180 --> 19:26.420 I hope they know that they should not just trust every doctor that they meet. 19:26.420 --> 19:32.660 This is a really good explanation of being trans to give to first graders actually. 19:32.660 --> 19:33.660 I like that a lot. 19:33.660 --> 19:34.660 Oh yeah. 19:34.660 --> 19:36.940 I thought he put it very well. 19:36.940 --> 19:41.860 Not that I would understand if it's good or bad honestly but to me it's how it was like 19:41.860 --> 19:43.440 a good explanation. 19:43.440 --> 19:48.260 Like he used the whole imagery of like wearing an itchy sweater that keeps getting itchier 19:48.260 --> 19:49.260 and itchier. 19:49.260 --> 19:50.260 Yeah. 19:50.260 --> 19:51.260 I thought it was good. 19:51.260 --> 19:56.700 At least good for trying to simplify a very complex thing that people like adults are 19:56.700 --> 19:58.620 still trying to understand. 19:58.620 --> 20:03.940 It's hard to understand because it's nothing most of us has ever experienced before. 20:03.940 --> 20:08.260 And yeah the analogy of the itchy sweater is it makes a lot of sense. 20:08.260 --> 20:13.500 I don't think a lot of people are trying to understand or want to understand. 20:13.500 --> 20:15.300 Yeah that's true too. 20:15.300 --> 20:19.820 And that's not like a like a political ideology thing a lot of the times too. 20:19.820 --> 20:20.820 It's distance. 20:20.820 --> 20:23.060 Like this has nothing to do with my life. 20:23.060 --> 20:25.540 I'm not gonna try to understand it. 20:25.540 --> 20:26.540 Yeah. 20:26.540 --> 20:27.540 Yeah. 20:27.540 --> 20:29.700 Or like you're not even a part of our culture. 20:29.700 --> 20:35.300 I mean I know on the left it happens a lot where it's like a what is it trans exclusionary 20:35.300 --> 20:37.220 feminist. 20:37.220 --> 20:42.660 Where it's being left leaning but still not accepting that people can be trans and it's 20:42.660 --> 20:46.500 very annoying and it's toxic no matter where it happens and it's not okay. 20:46.500 --> 20:48.580 Just let people live how they want to live. 20:48.580 --> 20:50.580 Why is this so difficult? 20:50.580 --> 20:51.580 All right. 20:51.580 --> 20:53.940 We made it about six minutes into the podcast. 20:53.940 --> 20:54.940 Yeah it's been. 20:54.940 --> 20:55.940 Yeah. 20:55.940 --> 20:56.940 Oh my god. 20:56.940 --> 21:00.300 I didn't realize that this article to straight up misgenders. 21:00.300 --> 21:05.620 Yeah the whole time they use she and her and like this woman. 21:05.620 --> 21:09.460 It's really rude and just insensitive. 21:09.460 --> 21:12.660 Like try to at least act like you're trying to understand where these people are coming 21:12.660 --> 21:15.220 from instead of thinking you already know. 21:15.220 --> 21:21.360 So slow fur attributes it to Peter Heck but in my experience with reading those articles 21:21.360 --> 21:23.260 Peter Heck was a little bit better. 21:23.260 --> 21:28.540 Like he was still rough but this dude that has that in the article is Joel Abbott and 21:28.540 --> 21:31.260 he is just terrible. 21:31.260 --> 21:32.260 Yeah. 21:32.260 --> 21:33.460 Well that just shows. 21:33.460 --> 21:38.260 I mean it like I'm really glad I laid the baseline and then the last episode about these 21:38.260 --> 21:43.080 people that write for the Babylon Bee and not the bee and I'm assuming their social 21:43.080 --> 21:46.580 media I'm scared to even look at that. 21:46.580 --> 21:51.980 They've been kicked off on and off all their social media for misinformation. 21:51.980 --> 21:54.100 So take from that what you will. 21:54.100 --> 21:55.300 But so they made their own. 21:55.300 --> 21:58.100 I'm very scared to see their users over there. 21:58.100 --> 22:01.780 Especially after reading our book reviews last time. 22:01.780 --> 22:08.780 But like it's insulting that these writers who just do not care about the people they're 22:08.780 --> 22:13.780 writing about and just so inflammatory and so there's no research. 22:13.780 --> 22:18.180 They're like the only so they quote from the Daily Wire is the only other place they get 22:18.180 --> 22:20.980 any sort of resemblance of research from. 22:20.980 --> 22:27.380 And it's just an echo chamber in of itself of being super transphobic about it and like 22:27.380 --> 22:30.100 just misunderstanding the whole situation. 22:30.100 --> 22:36.700 Like this isn't even they talk about teaching kids about sex and like sexual perversion 22:36.700 --> 22:40.860 and sex acts and like that's not even what any of this is like this. 22:40.860 --> 22:45.720 This first grade teacher is just explaining what it means to be trans and a very easy 22:45.720 --> 22:51.080 to understand way for kindergarteners through second graders can understand. 22:51.080 --> 22:55.300 And it's just enough information you know kids have short attention span so it's just 22:55.300 --> 23:00.300 long enough of an explanation to explain what's going on make people who might feel the same 23:00.300 --> 23:06.420 way feel included in understanding just give information all around the kids without explaining 23:06.420 --> 23:10.260 anything like perverted or whatever they talk about later. 23:10.260 --> 23:11.260 Yeah. 23:11.260 --> 23:18.220 So at five minutes and 20 seconds slow for also talks about teaching kids about sex and 23:18.220 --> 23:23.060 mentions as Peter Heck and some of his good writing and stuff like that teaching about 23:23.060 --> 23:28.820 sex because some of the dialogue actually dealt with literal sexual perversion trying 23:28.820 --> 23:33.700 to say that this what I mean some of the stuff it was just like it was gross it was embarrassing 23:33.700 --> 23:35.740 and I couldn't believe it. 23:35.740 --> 23:43.060 I was floored when I saw this I'm like man now I see why DeSantis and others are trying 23:43.060 --> 23:44.060 to do what they're doing. 23:44.060 --> 23:45.060 I mean it was unbelievable. 23:45.060 --> 23:56.500 I wanted to talk a little bit more about Florida HB 1557 and SB 1834 which is titled Parental 23:56.500 --> 23:58.260 Rights and Education. 23:58.260 --> 24:03.860 So the Florida House and the Florida Senate have both passed this bill and Governor DeSantis 24:03.860 --> 24:10.700 has signed it into law so it comes into effect July 1st 2022 if it's not challenged in court 24:10.700 --> 24:12.180 and paused and held. 24:12.180 --> 24:13.180 We'll see. 24:13.180 --> 24:18.980 So the bill has four or three main pieces to it. 24:18.980 --> 24:25.500 The first is the school district is to ban the teaching of LGBTQ topics in the classroom. 24:25.500 --> 24:29.820 Schools are to not encourage discussions of sexual orientation and gender identity in 24:29.820 --> 24:35.820 primary grade levels or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate 24:35.820 --> 24:44.020 for students which I will add is very subjective very broad of descriptions. 24:44.020 --> 24:48.620 It doesn't really limit that any more than saying that just to keep it open enough for 24:48.620 --> 24:49.620 enforcement. 24:49.620 --> 24:54.780 And third parents that feel their student was subjected to a discussion or educated 24:54.780 --> 24:58.780 about gender identity and sexual orientation have the right to take legal action and sue 24:58.780 --> 25:01.340 the school district for violating the bill. 25:01.340 --> 25:07.940 This is things we've seen before with the abortion act in Texas just really giving people 25:07.940 --> 25:15.420 the ability to sue someone or something else giving them a lot of legal backing for that 25:15.420 --> 25:22.980 situation and just all in all enforcing limitation without actually enforcing it. 25:22.980 --> 25:28.940 This kind of a it goes around a couple legal protections in the law by doing it that way 25:28.940 --> 25:34.420 for the abortion bills specifically or the the anti-abortion bill specifically it gets 25:34.420 --> 25:40.380 around if the government isn't enforcing it by having a person sue another person then 25:40.380 --> 25:47.420 it gets around the legal precedent of Roe v Wade and Casey which is allowing abortions 25:47.420 --> 25:48.660 for now. 25:48.660 --> 25:53.740 And with this bill it gives the since the state isn't enforcing it the state isn't 25:53.740 --> 25:58.920 enforcing it through the schools it gives a little bit of a roundabout way of getting 25:58.920 --> 26:02.300 around the equal protection clauses in the Constitution. 26:02.300 --> 26:07.660 There was another part in this bill an amendment added by Senator Joe Harding co-author in 26:07.660 --> 26:12.140 the bill that if a student can buy confide sexual orientation or gender identity to a 26:12.140 --> 26:15.680 school official they must tell the parents within six weeks. 26:15.680 --> 26:19.300 This amendment was thrown out and it didn't pass but I think it's important to mention 26:19.300 --> 26:24.020 the specific one because it shows the rhetoric of the politicians writing this bill and what 26:24.020 --> 26:25.220 they actually want. 26:25.220 --> 26:30.520 So some statistics that came out after this bill started debate the public opinion research 26:30.520 --> 26:37.280 lab at the University of North Florida pulled a representative sample of 685 voters registered 26:37.280 --> 26:43.020 statewide and found 49 percent of the respondents opposed the legislation 40 percent support 26:43.020 --> 26:45.140 it either somewhat or strongly. 26:45.140 --> 26:50.060 Among Republicans 44 percent strongly approve of the legislation compared to 19 percent 26:50.060 --> 26:51.700 of registered Democrats. 26:51.700 --> 26:56.620 Men were more likely to feel that way than women but only by two percentage points. 26:56.620 --> 27:02.780 More notably than gender age appeared to be much of a stronger factor in these bills among 27:02.780 --> 27:08.140 the 55 to 64 year old support for this bill is the strongest with 48 percent somewhat 27:08.140 --> 27:13.180 or strongly supporting the idea that teachers should not encourage these discussions. 27:13.180 --> 27:18.100 That contrast strongly with those between the ages of 18 and 24 and that age group the 27:18.100 --> 27:23.860 poll shows 35 percent of that age group strongly or somewhat approve of the legislation and 27:23.860 --> 27:28.140 51 percent somewhat or strongly disapprove the poll shows. 27:28.140 --> 27:33.460 I think it's interesting bringing up these statistics and showing that a lot of the voters 27:33.460 --> 27:42.620 statewide Florida oppose the legislation and yet it still passes and support wanes drastically 27:42.620 --> 27:48.780 as you get lower into the voting age of 18 and 24 just showing as as you get lower and 27:48.780 --> 27:57.740 lower in the into age brackets the support for being inclusive and supportive of LGBTQ 27:57.740 --> 28:00.440 plus rights is stronger. 28:00.440 --> 28:07.620 So this bill is created to alienate students and more create an us versus them scenario 28:07.620 --> 28:10.980 to scare LGBTQ plus people. 28:10.980 --> 28:14.980 It also removes the safety barrier that students have at school from their home life and creates 28:14.980 --> 28:19.560 a scenario where a parent has the ability to exert more control over a child basically 28:19.560 --> 28:24.140 treating children like they aren't human beings but property of the parents as seems to be 28:24.140 --> 28:26.280 the trend recently. 28:26.280 --> 28:35.460 So yeah first of all I want to mention how much they focus they being the Lakewood Park 28:35.460 --> 28:43.620 podcast they focus on physicality as being reality and mentality as being fiction. 28:43.620 --> 28:50.060 I get somewhat confused when like why are we weighing physicality more than someone's 28:50.060 --> 28:58.020 mentality like how they think like that is all physical as well like thoughts or chemical 28:58.020 --> 29:00.900 reactions going on in your brain. 29:00.900 --> 29:05.500 It's like everything that we're doing like I feel like they're making thoughts and like 29:05.500 --> 29:09.880 ideas and consciousness to be something not physical. 29:09.880 --> 29:14.940 It's something outside of our own like body when I feel like all of that is still housed 29:14.940 --> 29:19.920 within the body like that is all part of physicality but they differentiate the two. 29:19.920 --> 29:21.500 Do you agree with that? 29:21.500 --> 29:27.820 Yeah yeah they talk I remember specifically them talking about naturalism which I thought 29:27.820 --> 29:33.860 was very odd and they seemed very confused at how someone could naturally like their 29:33.860 --> 29:42.100 body is physically what we consider male but they feel like they're more of a woman and 29:42.100 --> 29:47.380 they're more female and they didn't seem to understand how thinking works or like how 29:47.380 --> 29:49.900 consciousness works or how feelings work. 29:49.900 --> 29:56.660 They seem to like think that if you're a naturalist in quotes that you don't have thoughts like 29:56.660 --> 29:59.380 I don't I was really confused by that. 29:59.380 --> 30:03.780 Yeah I don't even have anything in that I didn't even try to get into the whole naturalism 30:03.780 --> 30:04.780 thing. 30:04.780 --> 30:07.180 My thing is like they they focus on what's easy. 30:07.180 --> 30:11.560 They're like okay this is something we can see like they love the idea of being able 30:11.560 --> 30:15.800 to see something and being able to take truth from seeing something right. 30:15.800 --> 30:21.480 So you see the doctor sees the genitals of the baby and knows whether the baby is male 30:21.480 --> 30:27.740 or female and that means that their gender identity must be boy or girl too if not they're 30:27.740 --> 30:30.460 delusional is what they're basically saying. 30:30.460 --> 30:36.060 And so do they understand like the liquid should offer a hermeneutics course of some 30:36.060 --> 30:38.620 sort or something like think about interpretation. 30:38.620 --> 30:44.020 Yes we can all see the same thing the exact same thing it is you can say it is objective 30:44.020 --> 30:47.300 in that it is there everyone sees it. 30:47.300 --> 30:51.100 Everyone's interpretation of that same thing everyone looking at the same thing all those 30:51.100 --> 30:52.860 interpretations can be different. 30:52.860 --> 30:58.300 That's where it gets subjective just because you can see thing doesn't make like your interpretation 30:58.300 --> 30:59.940 truth of that thing. 30:59.940 --> 31:05.300 And so I don't know why like just because they can't see these people's thoughts like 31:05.300 --> 31:12.380 they can't see a manifestation of their feelings of who their sense of themselves it must be 31:12.380 --> 31:18.100 delusional and that's where I think modernism does some wrong here. 31:18.100 --> 31:23.500 Modernism is I mean and going through school you can tell they love modernism. 31:23.500 --> 31:30.740 They hate postmodernism modernism being like this very logic oriented scientific method 31:30.740 --> 31:37.180 of do this experiment this way get results trying to be objective and not necessarily 31:37.180 --> 31:43.300 trying but in modernism I think they actually believe they can be objective and postmodernism 31:43.300 --> 31:47.060 kind of goes into say like hey no you can't really be objective. 31:47.060 --> 31:52.060 Everyone has their own bias and you cannot just get rid of that that is ingrained into 31:52.060 --> 31:57.420 how you think like you can't necessarily be objective you can try you can identify your 31:57.420 --> 32:00.100 biases but they're still going to be bias in there. 32:00.100 --> 32:05.460 And so they really think just because they can see these things that it's obvious and 32:05.460 --> 32:11.940 they just throw out someone's thoughts and self images that you must be what you look 32:11.940 --> 32:18.860 like that is what I get from from their perspective and I disagree. 32:18.860 --> 32:25.780 I think what how you see yourself internally it has a much bigger effect on who you are 32:25.780 --> 32:32.060 and who you're going to be than how you physically look or how you physically what your anatomy 32:32.060 --> 32:40.540 has like why I just get confused why they're so attached to if you have a penis you must 32:40.540 --> 32:47.340 be man you must be godly man you must fit into this role that we have assigned you rather 32:47.340 --> 32:52.420 than be who you want to be be who you are. 32:52.420 --> 32:58.260 Well I mean even if you think about it like they have this weird concept just about specifically 32:58.260 --> 33:02.880 trans people right like yeah people go to church wearing clothes that make them feel 33:02.880 --> 33:07.220 good people go to school with clothes that make them feel good it's not like any of the 33:07.220 --> 33:12.740 hosts go to school and stuff that like is unflattering really like they want to feel 33:12.740 --> 33:17.620 good when they go out like they don't yell at their partners because they're wearing 33:17.620 --> 33:22.720 makeup going to church and that's not natural like people want to feel good in their bodies. 33:22.720 --> 33:28.100 So why is it like why is the line here like why did you put it here it's odd. 33:28.100 --> 33:31.580 Yeah it's it's really weird. 33:31.580 --> 33:36.740 I don't I don't I try to understand I feel like I was at that point but they really do 33:36.740 --> 33:44.860 most of the episode is focused on trans people and their issues with trans people and so 33:44.860 --> 33:50.780 that's going to be the majority of this episode they do bring in sexuality at some point but 33:50.780 --> 33:55.220 in a bad way where they're like relating the two. 33:55.220 --> 34:00.140 Let's first of all say gender identity is different from sexual orientation. 34:00.140 --> 34:02.020 Those are two complete different topics. 34:02.020 --> 34:09.300 I think they just see like LGBTQ like the T is in there it is in like this like sexuality 34:09.300 --> 34:14.120 domain in a sense but it really doesn't have to do with sexual orientation. 34:14.120 --> 34:17.980 So first of all like we're going to try to cover the trans part because that's mostly 34:17.980 --> 34:20.100 what they focus on through this episode. 34:20.100 --> 34:26.380 Yeah but basically I just see them taking the easy way out instead of trying to understand 34:26.380 --> 34:29.820 someone they just look at their genitals and say what they are. 34:29.820 --> 34:35.380 That's the content they consume I mean not I can't say for all of them but Slow For specifically 34:35.380 --> 34:40.660 I know in other episodes he mentions the different writers and I kind of know the content he 34:40.660 --> 34:45.380 consumes generally but I mean in this specific one he brings up Joel Abbott and Peter Heck 34:45.380 --> 34:53.300 and they are very anti trans people very reactionary right opinion writers and their opinions are 34:53.300 --> 34:58.220 I mean their opinion I mean basically their opinions are shallow and unresearched and 34:58.220 --> 35:02.100 it's the easy way out and it's the same kind of attitude we get throughout this entire 35:02.100 --> 35:04.100 episode as well. 35:04.100 --> 35:09.380 So Slow For goes on to talk about I don't know if he was talking about a specific person 35:09.380 --> 35:15.700 he knew or just in general but he talks about people who have transitioned and end up regretting 35:15.700 --> 35:25.740 it and trying to use that as part of his argument for the why trans is bad. 35:25.740 --> 35:35.780 I was reading articles of those who are coming forward now as being transgender dealing with 35:35.780 --> 35:43.300 that and going through the therapy and the hormones and excuse me surgeries and realizing 35:43.300 --> 35:51.360 that this was not what I was promised this is not fulfilling me this is not fixing what 35:51.360 --> 35:57.760 I was dealing with and it's still there and but now I'm worse off and very interesting 35:57.760 --> 36:03.140 to hear this particular individual well what there's there's a few on there that are interviewed 36:03.140 --> 36:06.840 on this clip I have. 36:06.840 --> 36:12.380 He mentions people regretting transitioning and yes that can happen that's why even like 36:12.380 --> 36:20.140 with surgeons they should be pretty thorough in making sure that the person does have this 36:20.140 --> 36:25.580 dysphoria between their body and who and their gender identity and whether it's going to 36:25.580 --> 36:29.940 benefit their lives like they have different things that they do to try to decide like 36:29.940 --> 36:34.020 this is going to be better for this person it's not just anyone who goes in being like 36:34.020 --> 36:37.940 I want reassignment surgery they're not just going to be like okay let's go do it right 36:37.940 --> 36:43.580 now like it does go through a process and yes there are going to be people that eventually 36:43.580 --> 36:48.860 end up regretting it and it does suck for them like it's a big bummer I don't know 36:48.860 --> 36:54.540 what to say about it but I don't want to assume that there's like one correct way of doing 36:54.540 --> 37:00.300 things that applies to every single individual just because it wasn't the right choice for 37:00.300 --> 37:04.820 that specific person doesn't mean that it's not the right choice for everybody it doesn't 37:04.820 --> 37:10.900 discount everyone like it's a big generalization of like oh this person regretted it so it's 37:10.900 --> 37:12.100 bad. 37:12.100 --> 37:19.900 So yeah he talks about this I remember I looked into it a little bit there's definitely people 37:19.900 --> 37:24.980 that have the regret transitioning there's people that it didn't it helped but it didn't 37:24.980 --> 37:30.800 help fully and they still have other issues doing reassignment surgery is a big deal you 37:30.800 --> 37:35.940 go through stuff with a psychologist and therapist and the surgeon to make sure like you said 37:35.940 --> 37:42.740 there's a process a big process it's an important milestone that can happen and it's sometimes 37:42.740 --> 37:47.820 for the majority of people that do transition it's a life-changing event they feel better 37:47.820 --> 37:56.580 with themselves they are less suicidal they're less yeah and so I looked into people who 37:56.580 --> 38:01.380 have regretted transitioning there's definitely been people that have regretted I don't want 38:01.380 --> 38:08.380 to limit their stories there it's important to hear those as well but the 60 minutes specifically 38:08.380 --> 38:14.220 there was a couple of news outlets 60 minutes specifically ran a piece about this a couple 38:14.220 --> 38:22.980 years ago and it came out later that the journalist didn't actually talk to any of the people 38:22.980 --> 38:29.840 who transitioned they talked to their parents and in a lot of circumstances the parents 38:29.840 --> 38:35.300 weren't supportive of the transition and it didn't seem like the stories were all clear 38:35.300 --> 38:43.880 it was very messy and even then even if we go through what slopher is talking about he 38:43.880 --> 38:50.140 almost generalizes it and makes it a bigger deal he doesn't talk about any specific statistics 38:50.140 --> 38:55.900 or anything like that the statistics vary a little bit it's very confusing of a field 38:55.900 --> 39:02.340 it's about maybe 8% of people who transition later might have possible regrets doing that 39:02.340 --> 39:08.380 but the majority of people do not have any regrets they live better lives that way I 39:08.380 --> 39:12.940 hate bringing up these statistics in a way that it almost dehumanizes I'm trying not 39:12.940 --> 39:17.760 to dehumanize people but like they just make it such a bigger like this stuff a big deal 39:17.760 --> 39:21.700 and like they just they always preach it as fact and that's what gets me this whole episode 39:21.700 --> 39:26.780 like they say these things and treat them as like fact without citing anything specifically 39:26.780 --> 39:31.220 besides something maybe they saw and like there's just so much more nuance to it that 39:31.220 --> 39:39.060 I'm trying to bring out as well yeah that goes into I think there's like I'm getting 39:39.060 --> 39:45.820 to the end of slow first bit here so he goes on to this thing of saying he says if the 39:45.820 --> 39:53.660 Bible is true and goes on true you know and then we do have a real God who created us 39:53.660 --> 39:59.740 on purpose and purposely made humanity to be two genders and for a function to be there 39:59.740 --> 40:05.140 and you know I really do think a lot of what we're seeing is just flat out you know if 40:05.140 --> 40:10.860 we're rebelling against our creator and we're rebelling against the truth then of course 40:10.860 --> 40:16.340 this is going to be a part of it to where we are rebelling against the very design of 40:16.340 --> 40:23.260 the the two the gender binary system that he made within humanity he basically says 40:23.260 --> 40:30.580 that trans people are rebelling against the creator and this is where I get really confused 40:30.580 --> 40:38.740 too because he's probably only talking about trans people that transition like that actually 40:38.740 --> 40:43.820 have the surgery go on ERT and change their bodies I think that's specifically what he's 40:43.820 --> 40:48.700 talking about he lumps that as all trans people I don't think that's necessarily correct 40:48.700 --> 40:53.980 though but so he talks about trans people rebelling against the creator and in that 40:53.980 --> 40:58.620 sense it's like are you just talking about because you have a surgery to change your 40:58.620 --> 41:03.860 body or you do things that changes your body because we have so many different things that 41:03.860 --> 41:10.060 we use that is supposed to change our body or help our body or yeah like they they might 41:10.060 --> 41:15.500 be against cosmetic surgery but for some people that's probably the best choice because some 41:15.500 --> 41:21.060 way that their body was formed is causing them harm and that's where I think they just 41:21.060 --> 41:24.900 get too focused on physical harm it's like oh yeah it's causing them physical harm so 41:24.900 --> 41:29.620 they should have a surgery so that they are physically well what if their body is causing 41:29.620 --> 41:35.820 them mental harm like we just disregard mental harm at all like a mental health is just not 41:35.820 --> 41:41.420 a thing I did not hear anything about mental health going through liquid and I'm hoping 41:41.420 --> 41:45.260 they're addressing that in some way now but you can tell by the way that they talk that 41:45.260 --> 41:50.820 they are much more focused on physical well-being than mental well-being and it's like mental 41:50.820 --> 41:55.780 well-being doesn't matter that's just something secondary your body is most important your 41:55.780 --> 42:02.220 mental health comes last do you get the same kind of vibe yeah yeah you can you put that 42:02.220 --> 42:07.660 really really well I get exactly that same vibe yeah so they're saying it's a rebellion 42:07.660 --> 42:11.700 against the creator and I just because you're changing something from the way that you're 42:11.700 --> 42:17.980 born does that make you rebellion against the creator if there is one like part of that 42:17.980 --> 42:24.500 creation is the mind the the part that is saying something's wrong that is a part of 42:24.500 --> 42:30.280 the creation does the brain not matter does like the mind or the brain are do the does 42:30.280 --> 42:36.100 that matter at all in their perspective it depends if it's defending the faith or not 42:36.100 --> 42:41.360 I think and like like that's kind of a joke but kind of not at the same time I mean like 42:41.360 --> 42:48.260 it's just another weird line in the sand being drawn for no reason like we have so many amazing 42:48.260 --> 42:53.520 surgeries like like was it me what was I rebelling against the creator when I got my gallbladder 42:53.520 --> 42:58.920 removed because it was slowly killing me or like my tonsils and adenoids removed because 42:58.920 --> 43:04.380 I was getting tonsillitis every year every six months and my adenoids removed so I could 43:04.380 --> 43:10.500 breathe better like I've had surgeries that are like removing and changing my body I mean 43:10.500 --> 43:16.700 that's what most surgeries are I guess yeah and so you have also you have also rebelled 43:16.700 --> 43:21.900 against the creator by changing the creation yeah and like maybe he maybe Slither needs 43:21.900 --> 43:26.700 to be more specific but the way he mentions us in the podcast the definition of what he 43:26.700 --> 43:31.700 thinks is rebelling against the creator is broad enough to include almost everybody who's 43:31.700 --> 43:39.900 had any sort of preventative surgery and maybe even like I remember a couple years ago a 43:39.900 --> 43:47.180 man got something happened some accident and he was able to get his face entirely reconstructed 43:47.180 --> 43:53.020 um like so he got plastic surgery which is plastic surgery is done on burn victims and 43:53.020 --> 43:58.100 things like that cosmetic surgery is using those techniques to improve and alter the 43:58.100 --> 44:02.780 body um I actually learned about that recently so I'm very happy to know this knowledge now 44:02.780 --> 44:08.980 but like he it was a miracle recovery right but under this definition he would also be 44:08.980 --> 44:13.140 rebelling against the creator really like I just don't like this definition I don't 44:13.140 --> 44:19.900 think it's right and it's just another weird line drawn in some arbitrary sand really right 44:19.900 --> 44:26.420 which leads to the last thing that he had to say was him being he didn't use the term 44:26.420 --> 44:36.540 androgynous but he was upset about the people in ads not looking like a specific gender 44:36.540 --> 44:42.980 like he was upset that even the ads are getting rid of gender you know I'm scrolling through 44:42.980 --> 44:49.820 on my phone and just random advertisements that come up some for ups or whatever and 44:49.820 --> 44:58.780 the the person that they show it's like intentionally um almost like a gender neutral type person 44:58.780 --> 45:05.820 um I got one from from walmart uh that that was showing a barbie and it was like a like 45:05.820 --> 45:13.860 a genderless type human you know and it's like trying to it's like wow that's that's 45:13.860 --> 45:22.300 at the core of of our rebellion rebelling against him even trying to erase oh no so 45:22.300 --> 45:29.540 I said now being androgynous is rebelling against god oh brother like come on like just 45:29.540 --> 45:35.340 because people express that way or like these companies are trying to be inclusive of everyone 45:35.340 --> 45:39.180 like obviously they're a business they're trying to get more clicks and the way they're 45:39.180 --> 45:44.060 doing that is because people are more concerned with inclusivity and so they're just trying 45:44.060 --> 45:49.620 to make the people in these ads more relatable or at least include more of the population 45:49.620 --> 45:57.100 that's been left out for who knows how long forever like now you don't need to get upset 45:57.100 --> 46:02.860 about a category of people that dress in a non-gendered way like they don't I don't know 46:02.860 --> 46:09.140 if they even know about non-binary but I don't think they'd be for non-binary people at all 46:09.140 --> 46:14.580 either I think they'd they'd find a problem with that too even if it doesn't involve like 46:14.580 --> 46:20.300 surgery or anything they just have a problem with someone not adhering to one of the two 46:20.300 --> 46:26.860 gender stereotypes that the patriarchal church has brought yeah like and even let's if we 46:26.860 --> 46:32.660 take the massive ben shapiro assumption that everything they say right now in this episode 46:32.660 --> 46:37.740 is true and that being trans and changing is rebelling against God it's a sin all that 46:37.740 --> 46:42.820 stuff if we take that all is true the people in these ads don't believe have the same belief 46:42.820 --> 46:47.780 system as you so why does it matter how they look why are you getting super upset about 46:47.780 --> 46:52.740 how someone else decides to present themselves to the world like why does that even matter 46:52.740 --> 46:59.300 to you at all like it doesn't it really doesn't and when you start to take a minority group 46:59.300 --> 47:05.500 and decide that they are sinning against God for being who they are it's just entering 47:05.500 --> 47:09.620 really dangerous territory like I just don't get it I just don't get it yeah they don't 47:09.620 --> 47:16.320 get it either though we're all in the same boat here guys we all don't understand so 47:16.320 --> 47:23.900 stop acting like you do I I try to and who knows but anyways that's the end of slow first 47:23.900 --> 47:31.740 bit there at the beginning which leads into Jed so Jed had some ideas as well which he 47:31.740 --> 47:38.500 goes in and talking about Genesis shows ideal creation that was one of his first things 47:38.500 --> 47:47.340 he goes Genesis is what is showing ideal creation because Genesis one it doesn't just talk about 47:47.340 --> 47:53.660 how creation is made it also talks about like it shows the ideal form of creation like it's 47:53.660 --> 47:58.300 like this isn't just God creating this is also showing what creation is meant to be 47:58.300 --> 48:07.020 creation at its height creation at its peak and I was just gonna say one person's ideal 48:07.020 --> 48:13.660 is another person's hell like first of all it's not it's not as easy just because like 48:13.660 --> 48:20.780 this story adapted to I shouldn't I shouldn't get into some of the history of it but like 48:20.780 --> 48:26.460 Genesis you can tell it's not like an original story that's in the Bible it's been used in 48:26.460 --> 48:33.420 a lot of different areas and it's written by people in a very old culture a very misogynist 48:33.420 --> 48:40.500 patriarchal culture that loved the same things like this separation and so just because that 48:40.500 --> 48:46.440 person's idea of creation and what ideal creation would be doesn't necessarily make it I know 48:46.440 --> 48:53.140 that they believe in like the what not inerrancy but infallibility of the Bible at that point 48:53.140 --> 49:00.860 like you're reading too much into a myth like the specifics of that I don't think are what 49:00.860 --> 49:07.820 matters much I don't think the storyteller was trying to say hey look at this the whole 49:07.820 --> 49:12.540 per point of the story is to show that this is a woman this is a man this is how they 49:12.540 --> 49:17.980 relate to each other type of thing like but that's just one of the things he does go into 49:17.980 --> 49:26.540 talking about so I'm gonna say the ideology that is affirming of trans people he claims 49:26.540 --> 49:32.900 that that is the new Gnosticism and this it's like a new form of Gnosticism where it's saying 49:32.900 --> 49:38.320 it's just kind of like oh who you are is something detached from your physicality is something 49:38.320 --> 49:45.280 independent of what your physicality is it's a fun one so he's saying that who someone 49:45.280 --> 49:52.380 is their idea of who someone is is detached from their physicality like he goes in I don't 49:52.380 --> 49:56.980 know if he uses delusional there but he does say that it's something that doesn't exist 49:56.980 --> 50:03.260 like this who someone is their idea is not reality that their physicality is who they 50:03.260 --> 50:08.480 are and again I just go into this whole like so it's just someone's mentality does not 50:08.480 --> 50:13.560 matter like they're just so focused on this physicality of a person like I would say like 50:13.560 --> 50:18.740 what makes someone who they are is how they think I it just doesn't make sense there 50:18.740 --> 50:23.980 a body is part of who someone is but I say what matters more is who they see themselves 50:23.980 --> 50:30.580 as maybe if people weren't so binary and didn't shove genders into boxes people would be fine 50:30.580 --> 50:35.980 having a male body and feeling like a woman but no people treat men one way and women 50:35.980 --> 50:40.980 another so the real problem isn't with their physicality but with societal norms given 50:40.980 --> 50:45.620 from a history of patriarchal Christians they are upset because people are not fitting a 50:45.620 --> 50:52.340 mold that was created by the church or just by by past generations and I'd like to think 50:52.340 --> 50:58.020 that with progress we learn new things we throw out some of the old dated things and 50:58.020 --> 51:02.980 we get a newer understanding of them like growth like I said last time requires change 51:02.980 --> 51:09.580 but like I don't I was talking with Natalie about it just this idea like I wonder if this 51:09.580 --> 51:18.140 is just a hypothetical and who who could even answer it I wonder if anyone would have dysphoria 51:18.140 --> 51:23.780 if they were just allowed to exist and not treated how they looked like didn't get a 51:23.780 --> 51:28.180 certain treatment based on what their body looked like like if if people just allowed 51:28.180 --> 51:34.140 other people to exist without pushing on some sort of standard like oh you look like a boy 51:34.140 --> 51:39.220 you should act this way you should dress this way you should be this way if people didn't 51:39.220 --> 51:45.100 do that would there be any dysphoria with between their self-image in their body like 51:45.100 --> 51:49.300 there no one I think can answer that because that is an ideal world that's never going 51:49.300 --> 51:55.340 to exist but I was just curious about that like is it I feel like society is one of the 51:55.340 --> 52:02.060 issues like our cultural norms societal norms are is what's making people within that community 52:02.060 --> 52:08.460 have dysphoria or feel bad about the body they were given like going back to that that 52:08.460 --> 52:14.580 teacher's video he talks about the doctor assigning him the sex of female of being a 52:14.580 --> 52:22.020 girl and what did his parents do they immediately go dress him up in girl clothing like we have 52:22.020 --> 52:28.820 girl clothing and guy clothing like dress him up in girl clothing put him in girl activities 52:28.820 --> 52:33.060 and whatnot like we have these like these activities are for girls these are for guys 52:33.060 --> 52:38.840 and because of that that probably caused his dysphoria to be worse that is a big assumption 52:38.840 --> 52:44.460 I will admit that like but I just have a feeling that it is because people treat people a certain 52:44.460 --> 52:49.100 way based on how they look that they are like this is not the way I want to look I want 52:49.100 --> 52:54.740 to be treated the way that I see myself not the way that you see me and I don't think 52:54.740 --> 53:03.220 people are going to be able to do that that's just again I don't really have any expertise 53:03.220 --> 53:09.660 just a straight white man as Bo Burnham puts it right we like to paint our fingernails 53:09.660 --> 53:14.500 sometimes that's true I did suggest that we paint our fingernails while we recorded this 53:14.500 --> 53:21.540 podcast I thought that would have been funny paint your nails is not just for girls everyone 53:21.540 --> 53:29.260 can paint their nails if they want to let them if it makes you feel hot go for it don't 53:29.260 --> 53:33.720 make it a big deal unless you're gonna like go overboard with how much you love them then 53:33.720 --> 53:39.020 go for it that's fine I love I love when I me and Natalie both have our nails painted 53:39.020 --> 53:46.540 and everyone just complements mine but ignores hers it's just hilarious because no one's 53:46.540 --> 53:51.740 used to men having painted nails at least not straight men yeah it's pretty fun I like 53:51.740 --> 53:58.660 doing it makes me feel good makes me feel like I can type amazingly I can I just look 53:58.660 --> 54:06.660 good typing like I could be a hand model you can do whatever you want to do if I don't 54:06.660 --> 54:12.420 push down my cuticles before I do it then they look a little like wrong like off like 54:12.420 --> 54:17.780 not long enough yeah I have to push back my cuticles or else like it's more of like a 54:17.780 --> 54:24.500 rectangle where the short sides are because from the tip of my finger to like the cuticle 54:24.500 --> 54:29.060 that part is small it doesn't look right with the width of it when I don't push back my 54:29.060 --> 54:33.780 cuticles and paint them so yeah that's a part of my routine if I ever paint my nails I got 54:33.780 --> 54:37.860 to push back my cuticles before I paint I still can't I still can't paint between the 54:37.860 --> 54:46.260 lines so we're still working on okay so that was the whole new Gnosticism thing so I went 54:46.260 --> 54:54.380 to harvest fellowship one week with my parents and I was one of the earlier times we went 54:54.380 --> 55:03.060 as I was starting putting myself back together after deconstructing and he the pastor mentioned 55:03.060 --> 55:06.340 he was talking something about how the Trinity started I don't remember I don't remember 55:06.340 --> 55:10.340 what verses he was talking about somewhere in the New Testament and he just really wanted 55:10.340 --> 55:15.740 to talk about the Trinity and so he brought up a story of a I don't have my notes here 55:15.740 --> 55:21.440 because this is just off the cuff unfortunately there was a early church leader who didn't 55:21.440 --> 55:28.340 believe in the Trinity and someone other people were praying to show them the truth of like 55:28.340 --> 55:32.820 if this was real or not if the Trinity was real or not to give them a sign and then the 55:32.820 --> 55:40.380 guy who didn't believe in the Trinity was a big proponent of that side died before he 55:40.380 --> 55:47.580 was able to give his side and and so he dies and the pastor was just making fun of him 55:47.580 --> 55:52.100 and his side because of that and it was like super weird and insulting of like I was so 55:52.100 --> 55:56.540 early in Christianity like the Trinity wasn't set you can't just make fun of someone like 55:56.540 --> 56:01.100 that just because they believe different than you like making fun of him dying like and 56:01.100 --> 56:05.820 I just I that was the first flashback I got when I was listening to Jed talk about Gnosticism 56:05.820 --> 56:11.580 of like first off relating these two is not even the same and second off it just kind 56:11.580 --> 56:15.260 of like just because people had different beliefs than you doesn't mean you can just 56:15.260 --> 56:19.540 like roast them or like that like it's annoying. 56:19.540 --> 56:28.140 So at this point we get to Mr. D's perspective on this whole topic got Slow for Down got 56:28.140 --> 56:36.420 Jed down on to Mr. D. So Johnson Luke Johnson asks Mr. D. What he thinks about people that 56:36.420 --> 56:41.500 don't make this a big deal like people that think of gender identity and think like oh 56:41.500 --> 56:47.740 that's not a big deal. Let people be who they want who they are. I not want to be if I say 56:47.740 --> 56:52.900 want to be they're going to hit on that. Let people be who they are. He has what about 56:52.900 --> 56:56.760 these people that don't think it's a big deal that they should just be able to be who they 56:56.760 --> 57:05.620 are. And these response is quote ultimately that response is unloving unquote. 57:05.620 --> 57:14.460 I think that ultimately that response is unloving quite honestly. 57:14.460 --> 57:22.980 So what we're doing right here Chris ultimately we are being unloving to trans people or to 57:22.980 --> 57:27.060 yeah it's mostly just trans people that they talk about in this episode. So yeah we're 57:27.060 --> 57:33.620 being unloving by disagreeing. This is where I see manipulation by these teachers kids 57:33.620 --> 57:38.700 that listen to these teachers and these teachers make these things sound like oh it's obvious 57:38.700 --> 57:43.900 like oh like it's just this idea is stupid. Like how could you even think that when they 57:43.900 --> 57:49.280 joke about it and make it to a point where it's like this is unloving you're being unloving 57:49.280 --> 57:54.300 if you don't do this and make it's hard to disagree with teachers. And when you make 57:54.300 --> 57:59.360 it sound like such just like a fact like you were saying I consider that indoctrination 57:59.360 --> 58:04.940 or manipulation of these children. So I was saying to affirm people's identity is to be 58:04.940 --> 58:11.660 unloving is what he's saying. And then he calls he says that trans people are suffering 58:11.660 --> 58:15.780 from a delusion. And that's clearly what this is. 58:15.780 --> 58:23.620 In no other and no other sphere of life where somebody is suffering from a delusion and 58:23.620 --> 58:31.500 that's clearly what this is. Do we lean into that and say yes you should do that. Nobody 58:31.500 --> 58:39.540 who is suffering from schizophrenia goes to you know a psychologist or a psychiatrist 58:39.540 --> 58:46.780 and they're like yeah you know what you do you know your your hallucinations are real 58:46.780 --> 58:58.020 and you should live that out. And they don't affirm that they get help for the person. 58:58.020 --> 59:03.060 Using terminology like clearly again is just like this. You're trying to make something 59:03.060 --> 59:06.980 be dumbed down so that people agree with you especially when you're talking to an audience 59:06.980 --> 59:12.780 of students. Like when you use words like that like that's clearly what this is. You're 59:12.780 --> 59:19.660 just disregarding any other thought. You are just shoving it out like it has no place there 59:19.660 --> 59:24.180 and which he always was the one that said don't listen to me do your own research type 59:24.180 --> 59:29.540 thing but if you come to the conclusion that you are that is different than mine then it 59:29.540 --> 59:35.520 has no place here is how I see it. Well he says it's a delusion and I was going 59:35.520 --> 59:40.260 to say like tell that to the World Health Organization. They do not see it that way. 59:40.260 --> 59:46.500 He also compares it gender dysphoria. He compares dysphoria to schizophrenia. He compares it 59:46.500 --> 59:54.340 later on to anorexia and compares it to bulimia and it's just very ignorant to think that 59:54.340 --> 01:00:01.220 those are similar. Oh he also compares it to identifying as a different age. Your delusion 01:00:01.220 --> 01:00:07.300 is accurate and you should lean into this and do everything you can to do this. If I 01:00:07.300 --> 01:00:15.740 you know claimed you know that I was 65 years old and I should be collecting you know retirement 01:00:15.740 --> 01:00:22.700 benefits the government wouldn't go for that. It's just it's are you not trying to understand 01:00:22.700 --> 01:00:27.320 where this person is coming from or are you just trying to force your perspective on to 01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:31.940 other people because no other perspective can be right. I've already found the correct 01:00:31.940 --> 01:00:37.100 perspective. None of the other ones can be right like he doesn't give anything else a 01:00:37.100 --> 01:00:44.700 chance and I just think it's so rude to compare it to disorders such as schizophrenia or anorexia 01:00:44.700 --> 01:00:51.620 or bulimia. They're not the same thing. This is the stuff but just it it wasn't it hurt 01:00:51.620 --> 01:00:59.100 it hurt to listen to. Like it was so ignorant and off putting and insulting and it like 01:00:59.100 --> 01:01:04.700 at this point I got to the first time I listened to it I got eight about eight minutes in and 01:01:04.700 --> 01:01:10.060 had to stop and then I made it to about 12 minutes in and had to stop and then I got 01:01:10.060 --> 01:01:17.460 about 26 minutes in and just stopped for like a whole day of like it's just it's it it hurts 01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:23.900 to listen to it's it's not right it's insulting it's I mean it's angering it's frustrating 01:01:23.900 --> 01:01:31.200 and really like it just it made me sad too of like I'm just imagining they're so confident 01:01:31.200 --> 01:01:40.060 in their viewpoint about this and so confident to not listen to the communities of the trans 01:01:40.060 --> 01:01:45.740 community and honestly so many other communities they don't listen to them and what they're 01:01:45.740 --> 01:01:51.380 what they're saying they don't listen to organizations like the World Health Organization later he 01:01:51.380 --> 01:01:58.080 talks about the APA and they just don't listen to what scientists are saying what studies 01:01:58.080 --> 01:02:03.540 are saying what statistics are saying and they're just so confident in themselves that 01:02:03.540 --> 01:02:11.220 they're clearly right using an adverb that he uses clearly what it is that they're suffering 01:02:11.220 --> 01:02:16.460 from a delusion like that's so insulting to the people that have been trying to tell us 01:02:16.460 --> 01:02:23.540 how they feel for so long and they're finally getting representation and protection and 01:02:23.540 --> 01:02:33.820 help and then you just have people who are who study theology and have church adjacent 01:02:33.820 --> 01:02:39.340 degrees who think that they know more than the World Health Organization or the APA or 01:02:39.340 --> 01:02:46.140 the hundreds of psychologists and psychiatrists and therapists and the community themselves 01:02:46.140 --> 01:02:51.660 who are telling you how they feel and you just are so ignorant that you can't even listen 01:02:51.660 --> 01:02:56.820 and you can't even understand what they're going through so I just wanted to talk about 01:02:56.820 --> 01:03:05.400 so the Williams Institute UCLA did does a survey every couple years on with people who 01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:15.020 I identify as trans and it's specifically about unique risk factors and revolving around 01:03:15.020 --> 01:03:21.220 suicide so if that hits very close to home to you these numbers I'm I don't want to 01:03:21.220 --> 01:03:26.100 dehumanize people by bringing up too many statistics but I think it's really important 01:03:26.100 --> 01:03:31.900 is like understanding what this attitude of this podcast brings to the table what comes 01:03:31.900 --> 01:03:40.420 after if this viewpoint becomes mainstream if the parental rights Florida bill becomes 01:03:40.420 --> 01:03:48.740 law like federal law if stuff like this happens and the trans community loses a lot of their 01:03:48.740 --> 01:03:53.780 help that they have now it gets worse and I just wanted like really hit home of like 01:03:53.780 --> 01:03:59.260 what the science and statistics and studies are telling us and why we need to see that 01:03:59.260 --> 01:04:04.660 they are human and they are struggling so I don't mean to diminish anyone into a statistic 01:04:04.660 --> 01:04:08.500 and I just want to keep saying that so I don't because I don't really want people to know 01:04:08.500 --> 01:04:14.340 that so the Williams Institute writes that this is going to be just quoting straight 01:04:14.340 --> 01:04:19.700 up from their samples and I'll leave the link in the description if you want to look into 01:04:19.700 --> 01:04:25.900 more of the study so experiencing discrimination or mistreatment in education employment housing 01:04:25.900 --> 01:04:30.940 health care etc leads to higher levels of suicide attempts for example the prevalence 01:04:30.940 --> 01:04:35.580 of past year suicide attempts by those who reported that they had been denied equal treatment 01:04:35.580 --> 01:04:39.620 in the past year because they are transgender was more than double that of those who had 01:04:39.620 --> 01:04:46.380 not experienced such treatment 13.4 percent compared to 6.3 percent I'm gonna skip her 01:04:46.380 --> 01:04:51.800 down here to respondents who had been rejected by the religious communities or had undergone 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:56.740 conversion therapy were more likely to report suicide thoughts and attempts for instance 01:04:56.740 --> 01:05:02.140 13.1 percent of those who had experienced religious rejection in the past year had attempted 01:05:02.140 --> 01:05:07.860 suicide in that past year by contrast 6.3 percent of respondents who had experienced 01:05:07.860 --> 01:05:13.900 religious acceptance in the past year attempted suicide in the past year those who had quote 01:05:13.900 --> 01:05:19.420 de-transitioned at some point meaning having gone back to living according to their sex 01:05:19.420 --> 01:05:24.020 assigned at birth were significantly more likely to report suicide thoughts and attempts 01:05:24.020 --> 01:05:28.740 both past year and lifetime than those who had never de-transitioned in quotes nearly 01:05:28.740 --> 01:05:33.720 12 percent of those who quote de-transitioned attempted suicide in the past year compared 01:05:33.720 --> 01:05:40.180 to 6.7 percent of those who have not quote de-transitioned going down a little bit further 01:05:40.180 --> 01:05:45.340 these are the factors that are associated with lower risk of suicide thoughts and attempts 01:05:45.340 --> 01:05:50.740 for the survey respondents respondents with supportive families reported lower prevalence 01:05:50.740 --> 01:05:55.100 of past year and lifetime suicide thoughts and attempts those who wanted and received 01:05:55.100 --> 01:06:00.020 hormone therapy and or surgical care had a substantially lower prevalence of past year 01:06:00.020 --> 01:06:04.300 suicide thoughts and attempts than those who wanted hormone therapy and surgical care and 01:06:04.300 --> 01:06:09.100 did not receive them a lower proportion of respondents who lived in a state with a gender 01:06:09.100 --> 01:06:14.100 identity non-discrimination statute reported past year suicide thoughts and attempts than 01:06:14.100 --> 01:06:21.580 those who lived in states without such a statute so their conclusion comes to end quoting it's 01:06:21.580 --> 01:06:27.100 clear that minority stress experiences such as family rejection discrimination experiences 01:06:27.100 --> 01:06:32.060 and lack of access to gender affirming health care create added risk for transgender people 01:06:32.060 --> 01:06:37.740 furthermore the cumulative effect of experiencing multiple minority stressors is associated 01:06:37.740 --> 01:06:43.340 with dramatically higher prevalence of suicidality and i just wanted to bring that up and just 01:06:43.340 --> 01:06:50.780 point that this this attitude that uh the host uh have in this episode is um specifically 01:06:50.780 --> 01:06:57.580 called out in this survey respondent as leading to higher thoughts about suicide so like it's 01:06:57.580 --> 01:07:03.900 it's important that we talk about what's wrong and why being non-affirming has very much 01:07:03.900 --> 01:07:09.700 issues and how much it affects like they don't the hosts don't have this attitude of how 01:07:09.700 --> 01:07:15.500 serious their topic is they're making jokes they're laughing they're talking and they 01:07:15.500 --> 01:07:20.940 just have this attitude of being clearly right about this when the statistics say the exact 01:07:20.940 --> 01:07:29.620 opposite so d says a lot of stuff that assumes he knows the absolute truth including like 01:07:29.620 --> 01:07:34.980 he basically says anyone that like anyone who affirms people being trans anyone who 01:07:34.980 --> 01:07:41.420 affirms their identity uh that that ideology that belief that that is right and okay that 01:07:41.420 --> 01:07:47.380 flies in the face of all logic and truth and i just think it's funny that he thinks that 01:07:47.380 --> 01:07:54.140 like he must be pretty cynical towards just all of humanity in general like this poor 01:07:54.140 --> 01:07:59.420 guy probably thinks he's one of the only people that is logical and can identify truth like 01:07:59.420 --> 01:08:06.100 everyone that disagrees must just be so illogical and just can't discern what truth is like 01:08:06.100 --> 01:08:09.960 like if it's so clear why doesn't everyone believe it like if you think these things 01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:14.780 are just so clear and so concrete i would just argue that you'd be wrong in that sense 01:08:14.780 --> 01:08:19.940 just because there is such controversy over it like it's more complex than what he likes 01:08:19.940 --> 01:08:25.780 to make it out to be he likes to make it seem so simple like how can people get this wrong 01:08:25.780 --> 01:08:31.240 like maybe you should think of it as more complex issue but again they seem to only 01:08:31.240 --> 01:08:37.060 talk about people who transition who have reassignment surgery like just that specific 01:08:37.060 --> 01:08:42.080 area when that doesn't like i think that i think that involves all trans people i don't 01:08:42.080 --> 01:08:47.780 think they understand that there are a variety of trans people and what they decide to do 01:08:47.780 --> 01:08:54.160 uh but he goes on he really believes that dysphoria is a mental disorder and even goes 01:08:54.160 --> 01:09:00.340 on to claim that the apa classifies gender dysphoria as a mental disorder which is completely 01:09:00.340 --> 01:09:07.100 incorrect he misrepresents the apa's position uh the apa is the american psychiatric association 01:09:07.100 --> 01:09:13.280 for those who don't know that uh from one of their biggest publications uh that's used 01:09:13.280 --> 01:09:20.480 with psychiatrists is uh the dsm or it's actually an abbreviation for diagnostic and 01:09:20.480 --> 01:09:25.620 statistical manual of mental disorders and the most recent one is the fifth iteration 01:09:25.620 --> 01:09:33.140 of that uh and within that manual here is a quote it says quote it is important to note 01:09:33.140 --> 01:09:38.260 that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder the critical element of 01:09:38.260 --> 01:09:44.020 gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition 01:09:44.020 --> 01:09:51.140 unquote they try to clearly say in there that it is not a mental disorder it's just uh and 01:09:51.140 --> 01:09:55.700 then on the apa's own website uh they go in to talk there's some there's some good stuff 01:09:55.700 --> 01:10:00.380 just right at the beginning uh good for people like me who really don't understand it all 01:10:00.380 --> 01:10:06.140 that well uh but it basically talks about gender dysphoria referring to the psychological 01:10:06.140 --> 01:10:10.820 distress uh that results from incongruence between one's sex assigned at birth and one's 01:10:10.820 --> 01:10:16.580 gender identity uh people who are transgender may pursue multiple domains of gender affirmation 01:10:16.580 --> 01:10:21.740 including social affirmation for example changing one's name and pronouns they may look for 01:10:21.740 --> 01:10:26.740 legal affirmation which is changing gender markers on government issue documents so that 01:10:26.740 --> 01:10:31.980 is a legal affirmation of their gender they may look for medical affirmation such as uh 01:10:31.980 --> 01:10:38.260 pubertal pubertal suppression or gender affirming hormones and or surgical affirmation which 01:10:38.260 --> 01:10:43.780 is what they like to focus on uh so it says of no not all people who are transgender will 01:10:43.780 --> 01:10:49.220 desire all domains of gender affirmation as these are highly personal and individual decisions 01:10:49.220 --> 01:10:54.740 that just shows that there is a diversity within uh within transgender people i guess 01:10:54.740 --> 01:10:59.220 uh just i that's why it's kind of hard just to use that term because it does lump everyone 01:10:59.220 --> 01:11:04.740 together it's hard to like we want to differentiate but it's hard to like people within this domain 01:11:04.740 --> 01:11:09.900 are very different from each other it's not like they're all the same person uh and from 01:11:09.900 --> 01:11:17.900 there luke johnson just comes in with homosexuality like it has something to do with conversation 01:11:17.900 --> 01:11:22.260 like he doesn't transition at all he just jumps into homosexuality in which like we 01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:27.700 said before these are very different topics even on that same apa website they talk about 01:11:27.700 --> 01:11:32.740 gender identity being different from sexual orientation uh people who are transgender 01:11:32.740 --> 01:11:37.620 have the same diversity of sexual orientations as people who are cisgender i don't know why 01:11:37.620 --> 01:11:42.700 he thought like oh let's jump into homosexuality but now we're jumping into homosexuality or 01:11:42.700 --> 01:11:48.620 they like to use ssa same-sex attraction i guess also i think it's funny natalie pointed 01:11:48.620 --> 01:11:54.340 out like they use the term homosexuality all the time and they never use the word gay like 01:11:54.340 --> 01:12:00.140 they're scared of using the word gay so being trans has nothing to do with sexual orientation 01:12:00.140 --> 01:12:04.100 that is a part of who the person is their sexual orientation but it doesn't have to 01:12:04.100 --> 01:12:10.260 be with have to do with them being trans the problem has shifted and this is uh kind of 01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:16.340 harkening back to that podcast i referenced earlier with carl truman uh homosexuality 01:12:16.340 --> 01:12:22.740 has been around for a really long time right the greeks did it but for them it was a behavior 01:12:22.740 --> 01:12:27.220 not an identity and so some people might say that that's wrong some people might say it's 01:12:27.220 --> 01:12:33.340 right they're going to do what they're going to do but they didn't associate a homosexual 01:12:33.340 --> 01:12:40.340 action with who they fundamentally fundamentally were as a as a person and uh but that's where 01:12:40.340 --> 01:12:48.500 we're at now is that my sexual orientation my gender my understanding of my personal 01:12:48.500 --> 01:12:55.560 gender or whatever that has become who i am an identity problem so he goes on to talk 01:12:55.560 --> 01:13:03.040 about homosexuality in the past and how it was just a behavior is is what he says how 01:13:03.040 --> 01:13:07.940 people would have homosexual relations with each other but it was just a behavior i had 01:13:07.940 --> 01:13:13.860 nothing to do with who they are they like he tried to say like they didn't make homosexuality 01:13:13.860 --> 01:13:18.620 a part of their identity like he has a problem with people's sexual orientations being a 01:13:18.620 --> 01:13:23.020 part of who they are unless they're straight then that's fine i guess it's a it's a sexual 01:13:23.020 --> 01:13:27.860 orientation like are we still on this belief that like people choose their sexual orientation 01:13:27.860 --> 01:13:31.500 like are we still saying that like it's just it is a part of who they are did they get 01:13:31.500 --> 01:13:37.620 to choose it not that i know of uh i was gonna say like in the past so he says it was just 01:13:37.620 --> 01:13:43.020 a behavior i don't know what research he uses to come to that conclusion i don't know where 01:13:43.020 --> 01:13:48.900 he's getting that from but like what if we just considered that maybe it was a part of 01:13:48.900 --> 01:13:52.980 those people's identity in the past like maybe that was a part of who they were but it was 01:13:52.980 --> 01:13:57.900 it was dangerous for that to be known in a patriarchal context so they just put off being 01:13:57.900 --> 01:14:04.700 just like hey this is just a behavior or uh maybe they just didn't take sex as seriously 01:14:04.700 --> 01:14:10.380 as the church does or has in recent history uh maybe it wasn't tied to who they were because 01:14:10.380 --> 01:14:15.660 it was just sexuality maybe they just didn't care about sexuality but we make it a really 01:14:15.660 --> 01:14:21.580 big deal today i don't know like there's a whole lot of options that could be for his 01:14:21.580 --> 01:14:28.060 claim but i wouldn't know he didn't saw he didn't cite anything or source it so i couldn't 01:14:28.060 --> 01:14:35.460 tell you do they do they think do they believe that being gay is a mental disorder as well 01:14:35.460 --> 01:14:40.500 do they think same-sex attraction is a mental disorder i think they do i don't think they 01:14:40.500 --> 01:14:43.300 don't say it because they don't believe it is i think they just don't say it so they 01:14:43.300 --> 01:14:49.020 don't get backlash well i think that's true and the church likes to have its own uh almost 01:14:49.020 --> 01:14:54.900 a secret code for itself where it uses terms and words that mean the same thing as what 01:14:54.900 --> 01:14:59.300 everyone else uses but they say it different to try to get away from backlash i think that 01:14:59.300 --> 01:15:06.020 they would say it is uh if someone has in quotes i'm going to use their language same-sex 01:15:06.020 --> 01:15:13.420 attraction they use that term that way instead of saying gay or they're um attracted to the 01:15:13.420 --> 01:15:18.860 same sex they use ssa as an abbreviation because that's the term they use and so that's they 01:15:18.860 --> 01:15:25.060 can kind of use their own thoughts and processes and say that like it's a sin that god has 01:15:25.060 --> 01:15:30.380 bestowed on this person to be attracted to the same sex i remember specifically i remember 01:15:30.380 --> 01:15:36.140 slow for talking about this in our um utt class that was the first year he was teaching 01:15:36.140 --> 01:15:42.740 at lakewood and um he i remember him specifically talking about this and using terminology like 01:15:42.740 --> 01:15:48.220 that i can't say that he still uses it that way um it i mean he doesn't talk super a lot 01:15:48.220 --> 01:15:52.260 about it in this episode so i don't want to like assume that he still thinks that way 01:15:52.260 --> 01:15:59.180 i just remember in class he had um so one of his friends is a pastor who described himself 01:15:59.180 --> 01:16:07.180 as suffering with same-sex attraction um and described himself as it being um a sin that 01:16:07.180 --> 01:16:12.980 he suffered through it was a um a trial that he had to work through and he met his wife 01:16:12.980 --> 01:16:18.500 and was attracted to her and they had um kids together as a way to say that like you don't 01:16:18.500 --> 01:16:24.340 have to struggle with this forever um me looking back at that now i would say that well and 01:16:24.340 --> 01:16:31.100 he also um said that he just when he watched tvs he was when he watched tv or video or 01:16:31.100 --> 01:16:37.100 something he still had that um not lust but attraction and he thought men that still looked 01:16:37.100 --> 01:16:43.460 nice um what i know today i would say that the way they use the language was just tiptoeing 01:16:43.460 --> 01:16:49.700 around him saying that he was bi and not gay i don't want to give a term for him obviously 01:16:49.700 --> 01:16:56.260 but um the way the story reads to me now looking back is it was being used to project this 01:16:56.260 --> 01:17:00.540 way of saying same-sex attraction isn't something that happens to you all the time you can work 01:17:00.540 --> 01:17:05.660 through it it's a sin that is all right not a sin it's a sin and a um a thorn in your 01:17:05.660 --> 01:17:11.020 side kind of going back to the whole uh thing with paul um that god gives you to struggle 01:17:11.020 --> 01:17:16.140 with so you can become better that's kind of the language i remember them using in class 01:17:16.140 --> 01:17:22.940 and so they use someone that had found a partner that was a woman and they had kids together 01:17:22.940 --> 01:17:30.000 as a way to diminish people who are in relationships with the same sex i just very clearly remember 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:36.860 that and it still is i wish i could i would love to find that um person that had talked 01:17:36.860 --> 01:17:42.260 to us in class about this so i want to talk to him more about it yeah now that i i would 01:17:42.260 --> 01:17:47.940 like to hear more of his story it would be interesting to hear um i there's a youtube 01:17:47.940 --> 01:17:55.500 channel um god is gray uh she did some interviews and stuff with people who are kind of similar 01:17:55.500 --> 01:18:00.220 but i just have a very distinct memory with um this person so i always be curious to talk 01:18:00.220 --> 01:18:07.020 like one-on-one about it yeah so at this point we get into a bit of a i want to tread carefully 01:18:07.020 --> 01:18:13.420 because i don't want to say anything wrong with with jed or anything like that uh jed 01:18:13.420 --> 01:18:20.080 does in the episode uh come out and saying that he did struggle with dysphoria uh while 01:18:20.080 --> 01:18:27.060 he was going through school and kind of his whole experience which like he doesn't seem 01:18:27.060 --> 01:18:32.100 to think it was like such a bad thing to be at lakewood i think he he gives lakewood too 01:18:32.100 --> 01:18:39.420 much credit and and his uh explanation of going through school at lakewood uh but he 01:18:39.420 --> 01:18:44.220 went the whole time and didn't didn't say anything about his his dysphoria in school 01:18:44.220 --> 01:18:50.380 uh but he talked about his internal struggle and the questions he would ask himself uh 01:18:50.380 --> 01:18:55.980 like how would this make me a better person how would this improve my life and he doesn't 01:18:55.980 --> 01:19:01.420 really get too specific about what this is like he uses terminology like if you do what 01:19:01.420 --> 01:19:06.020 you want to do uh i don't know what he's talking about like do what you want to do is that 01:19:06.020 --> 01:19:11.380 like the like transitioning i i couldn't i don't want to read too much into it but he 01:19:11.380 --> 01:19:18.220 was saying if you do what you want to do uh like it may not be good for you uh how would 01:19:18.220 --> 01:19:23.720 it make you a better person and he basically was like the life i have is is good i'm going 01:19:23.720 --> 01:19:30.920 to keep the life that i have and i took that as more of like what settling is like life 01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:36.280 is good enough the way it is i don't want to disrupt that i'm going to settle for what 01:19:36.280 --> 01:19:40.980 i have right now now that that may be a bad interpretation he could be very happy with 01:19:40.980 --> 01:19:46.860 his decisions and i would be happy with that as well but not everyone could be happy with 01:19:46.860 --> 01:19:52.860 staying like sticking with the dysphoria just because your life is good enough and you don't 01:19:52.860 --> 01:19:56.980 want to ruin it like i would say the problem there is that it would get ruined at all if 01:19:56.980 --> 01:20:01.260 you were to say anything and that's what i think lakewood was was doing was making it 01:20:01.260 --> 01:20:07.500 scary to say anything because you think your life's going to change completely if you just 01:20:07.500 --> 01:20:12.900 tell people about this part of you so like yeah it sounds like he didn't say anything 01:20:12.900 --> 01:20:18.980 because there may be backlash if he were to express himself that way so the lesson i got 01:20:18.980 --> 01:20:25.700 was don't do it but later on they do say do and i'll i'll get into that but he's basically 01:20:25.700 --> 01:20:31.100 i heard like the life and the body you have right now can be good is is what i heard him 01:20:31.100 --> 01:20:36.300 use was the word can and so i was thinking well if it can be good it can be bad too it 01:20:36.300 --> 01:20:41.380 is individual i don't think it goes across the board but it's good to hear his account 01:20:41.380 --> 01:20:46.300 of it i was also really upset when slopher said something about like recognizing that 01:20:46.300 --> 01:20:52.020 in his senior year like pointing that out i i felt very uneasy with him saying that 01:20:52.020 --> 01:20:58.340 did you get the same feeling yeah it didn't feel good when slopher's like yeah i noticed 01:20:58.340 --> 01:21:02.380 that about you your senior year is like what are you trying to do here like what are you 01:21:02.380 --> 01:21:08.860 trying to prove yeah i don't know yeah well i don't know why he said it uh anyways after 01:21:08.860 --> 01:21:14.540 after jed talks about that and kind of talks about his own journey with that luke johnson 01:21:14.540 --> 01:21:21.580 comes in and this is my own summary of what he said uh so luke johnson comes in and he 01:21:21.580 --> 01:21:27.140 basically goes okay jed now you are our personal representative for everyone who has dysphoria 01:21:27.140 --> 01:21:32.540 please tell us how to make everyone better like that's that's not a direct quote but 01:21:32.540 --> 01:21:37.980 that's what i heard when he was like uh jed like how can you help people that are dealing 01:21:37.980 --> 01:21:43.300 with this since you experienced it yourself he's like purposefully making jed a representative 01:21:43.300 --> 01:21:50.260 for everyone who has dysphoria and what to do to basically cope with it i i don't i don't 01:21:50.260 --> 01:21:54.980 like the the turning him into a representative i don't know if he would want to be that representative 01:21:54.980 --> 01:22:01.380 but he takes it on anyways and he tries to give some advice to any other students that 01:22:01.380 --> 01:22:07.900 are dealing with the same thing uh and he uses uh phrases such as like uh living the 01:22:07.900 --> 01:22:13.940 life god is calling you to and how lakewood helped him uh live life how god was calling 01:22:13.940 --> 01:22:18.800 him to live his life and so i thought it was funny he i just feel like he gives lakewood 01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:25.020 too much credit he's too he's too in it uh but my experience with lakewood was not with 01:22:25.020 --> 01:22:30.340 lakewood helping me to go where god was calling me uh lakewood told me where to go they had 01:22:30.340 --> 01:22:36.500 their own idea of where god calls everyone and told me to go in that direction basically 01:22:36.500 --> 01:22:40.460 like god's calling you this way you need to go that way that's the way god's calling you 01:22:40.460 --> 01:22:46.060 they didn't help me they just told me where to go and he defends lakewood and i just think 01:22:46.060 --> 01:22:51.740 just because just because lakewood doesn't have the intention of kids feeling scared 01:22:51.740 --> 01:22:57.340 of talking and uh like just because they have that intention of okay let me start that over 01:22:57.340 --> 01:23:02.060 we're i gotta i don't think i wrote it out well uh just because lakewood doesn't have 01:23:02.060 --> 01:23:06.740 the intention of causing kids to feel scared about talking about these things does not 01:23:06.740 --> 01:23:11.840 make it okay intention doesn't make the impact okay causing kids to feel scared of talking 01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:18.140 about these things is not okay intention does not matter they need to be aware of the impact 01:23:18.140 --> 01:23:23.020 of their actions and not just hope that it works out because they want it to you wanting 01:23:23.020 --> 01:23:27.220 it to work out in a different in a certain way just because you want it to be good doesn't 01:23:27.220 --> 01:23:32.380 make it good your intention does not matter as much as the impact that it causes and we 01:23:32.380 --> 01:23:37.540 can see that the impact is that kids do not feel safe to talk and i don't blame them so 01:23:37.540 --> 01:23:43.980 jed goes into calling for kids to feel safe to tell someone to feel safe to bring it up 01:23:43.980 --> 01:23:48.500 but i still would not say that you're safe to bring those things up they want you to 01:23:48.500 --> 01:23:55.220 bring it up so that they can be there to quote help quote unquote you they want to help you 01:23:55.220 --> 01:24:01.860 or should i say save you like you are a victim of something it is very manipulative it's 01:24:01.860 --> 01:24:07.140 like you should feel safe but we want you to change we want to change this part of you 01:24:07.140 --> 01:24:11.020 so tell us about that part so we know that we have to change that in you and then they 01:24:11.020 --> 01:24:16.340 jokingly associate the consequences of i just put coming out i feel like coming out kind 01:24:16.340 --> 01:24:21.580 of encompasses everything it might not i might be wrong with this but i'm just saying coming 01:24:21.580 --> 01:24:26.120 out is telling people about like whether your gender identity sexual orientation anything 01:24:26.120 --> 01:24:33.060 like that so they jokingly associate the consequences of coming out as being locked in tunnels sent 01:24:33.060 --> 01:24:38.980 to hell failing bible class like all in a joking manner again and this isn't just me 01:24:38.980 --> 01:24:42.420 saying oh don't worry you know you don't have anything to worry about as somebody who's 01:24:42.420 --> 01:24:45.980 gonna clap the hammer on you this is something this is again this is something that i experienced 01:24:45.980 --> 01:24:52.380 as a young person facing these issues i felt these things i came to people with them and 01:24:52.380 --> 01:24:59.580 i was not sent straight to hell i wasn't excommunicated from lakewood park um you weren't put in the 01:24:59.580 --> 01:25:05.100 tunnels i wasn't putting the chained up no i i didn't fail bible class because of the 01:25:05.100 --> 01:25:13.820 fact well that's the tip of the cap to you nick unintentionally maybe intentionally associating 01:25:13.820 --> 01:25:18.700 coming out with bad things happening and then being like but that's not gonna happen but 01:25:18.700 --> 01:25:21.980 like that's what everyone believes and there's a reason for that there's a reason that people 01:25:21.980 --> 01:25:27.620 have these these ideas it's not just coincidental that people think oh something's bad something 01:25:27.620 --> 01:25:33.700 bad's gonna happen if i come out like there's a reason for that you should still be scared 01:25:33.700 --> 01:25:37.940 i don't know why he says this because it's in the handbook that you can get expelled 01:25:37.940 --> 01:25:43.060 for like stuff like this right like they're a private institution so they can have as 01:25:43.060 --> 01:25:49.700 many rules for expelling a student or suspending a student as they want like i there's punishment 01:25:49.700 --> 01:25:54.540 for this that's why no one does it and i i feel like almost you gave them too much credit 01:25:54.540 --> 01:25:59.820 for not having this attention uh my opinion would be that they do have the intention of 01:25:59.820 --> 01:26:04.700 scaring kids into making them what they want i don't know if i would go that far to say 01:26:04.700 --> 01:26:09.820 that's their intention yeah we'll have to agree to disagree on that they might they 01:26:09.820 --> 01:26:15.220 might see it as like utilitarian like it's a necessary evil who knows i don't know they 01:26:15.220 --> 01:26:21.140 might see it as like if i love this person i will have to do this kind of thing like 01:26:21.140 --> 01:26:28.060 a tough love almost yeah we'll have to i'm sure later episodes will get into more of 01:26:28.060 --> 01:26:34.580 lakewood's positions on things like this and their intention anyways after associating 01:26:34.580 --> 01:26:38.740 that i just wanted to say that honestly you shouldn't need you shouldn't need to have 01:26:38.740 --> 01:26:45.340 to tell anyone anything or come out that shouldn't be like something you have to do to be yourself 01:26:45.340 --> 01:26:50.700 you know like that's to say that like someone needs to tell you about it or come out to 01:26:50.700 --> 01:26:56.740 you to suggest that is to basically say they need to admit or i even heard them use the 01:26:56.740 --> 01:27:01.620 term confess that you have a problem like they're seeing it as like by you telling us 01:27:01.620 --> 01:27:05.600 about this you are confessing that you have a problem like if if you actually thought 01:27:05.600 --> 01:27:09.820 it would be safe to be yourself you wouldn't have to tell anyone anything but it's because 01:27:09.820 --> 01:27:13.780 there's an environment that you do not feel safe to be yourself and you don't feel like 01:27:13.780 --> 01:27:18.280 you can tell anyone who you really are and they're just saying but you should feel safe 01:27:18.280 --> 01:27:24.420 to tell us confess to us is really what they're saying it's not it's not a problem that's 01:27:24.420 --> 01:27:30.300 who you are is not a problem it's just silly again just given lakewood too much credit 01:27:30.300 --> 01:27:37.500 i think taylor was a good enough school he should know better he went to taylor i know 01:27:37.500 --> 01:27:41.780 some cool people that went to taylor i don't actually know much about taylor but oh and 01:27:41.780 --> 01:27:47.100 then i don't know it specifically i just started responding to things and not writing down 01:27:47.100 --> 01:27:53.900 what they were saying so at this point they talked something about the church being interpreted 01:27:53.900 --> 01:27:59.420 as being hateful and they're trying to show like we're not hateful we care type of deal 01:27:59.420 --> 01:28:07.540 because i fear that all you know just like what you know people who experience same-sex 01:28:07.540 --> 01:28:12.860 detraction heard with the debate over gay marriage is christians hate homosexuals you 01:28:12.860 --> 01:28:17.860 know and and i fear that this is the message that you know people struggle with gender 01:28:17.860 --> 01:28:23.580 dysphoria are getting is that christians just hate people who are struggling in this way 01:28:23.580 --> 01:28:32.060 that are just different you know so that's i think the danger in all of the arguing and 01:28:32.060 --> 01:28:38.260 battling back and forth is the message that's portrayed yeah i want to say the fact that 01:28:38.260 --> 01:28:43.060 people interpret the church's doings as being hateful should say something the fact that 01:28:43.060 --> 01:28:47.260 that's a thing that people interpret it that way it should say something but no it's everyone 01:28:47.260 --> 01:28:51.940 else's fault for misinterpreting them if your impact doesn't match your intention maybe 01:28:51.940 --> 01:28:57.460 try something else stop doing the same things over and over again blaming everyone for misinterpreting 01:28:57.460 --> 01:29:02.580 you like you're just putting the blame on everyone else because they don't understand 01:29:02.580 --> 01:29:07.060 me or should we just believe that there's a reason people see it as hateful i think 01:29:07.060 --> 01:29:12.580 there's something in that i completely agree with that like yeah if everyone else says 01:29:12.580 --> 01:29:18.540 something's hateful and you're like it's not hateful all of you are wrong and that's a 01:29:18.540 --> 01:29:23.580 lot of people that have to be wrong yeah no you're just you're just misinterpreting me 01:29:23.580 --> 01:29:31.260 i'm not being hateful i'm being loving by by harassing you at planned parenthood or 01:29:31.260 --> 01:29:35.740 i don't know we don't need to get into that that's not this episode that's another one 01:29:35.740 --> 01:29:43.460 we'll get there this episode has hurt so much like to listen to to write to do like i'm 01:29:43.460 --> 01:29:48.100 just i'm in so much pain and like listening to you talk for this past 45 minutes i just 01:29:48.100 --> 01:29:55.140 want to cry like yeah i'm almost done there's just a little bit more so they do start to 01:29:55.140 --> 01:30:01.460 discuss with each other how they would try to comfort someone that would come out and 01:30:01.460 --> 01:30:06.580 confess to them like they talk about like doing it the right way like listening to them 01:30:06.580 --> 01:30:10.780 whatnot like they're doing this whole act that they really just care they care about 01:30:10.780 --> 01:30:15.120 you so much and so they're like trying to figure out the best ways to converse about 01:30:15.120 --> 01:30:20.820 these things and so they say when it comes to somebody opening up and confessing struggles 01:30:20.820 --> 01:30:25.220 i get that was their direct quote that used the term confessing struggles they consider 01:30:25.220 --> 01:30:30.780 this confession um no i'm not saying that that doesn't happen we still have like a lot 01:30:30.780 --> 01:30:35.900 of opportunities where it does but i do think you know to jet's point as well we also when 01:30:35.900 --> 01:30:42.620 it when it comes to someone opening up and confessing struggles a lot of times the church 01:30:42.620 --> 01:30:49.180 can be a really gracious and kind and loving place i think the rub comes in just where 01:30:49.180 --> 01:30:54.460 you're saying nick where how do we continue to show kindness to the person yet engage 01:30:54.460 --> 01:31:01.940 for truth and the argument because of the broader implications um and that's i think 01:31:01.940 --> 01:31:11.940 that's just a difficult a difficult balance to have to engage in the debate while also 01:31:11.940 --> 01:31:17.720 clearly conveying love for the person and a love a love that wants to see wholeness 01:31:17.720 --> 01:31:26.940 and joy and and and peace and no more no more of all of the um all the struggles that come 01:31:26.940 --> 01:31:32.660 with with kind of calculating to you know the world's solution when it comes to somebody 01:31:32.660 --> 01:31:37.020 opening up and confessing struggles like they're basically wondering how do we tell someone 01:31:37.020 --> 01:31:41.180 nicely that they are wrong so that they will agree with me like they're talking they're 01:31:41.180 --> 01:31:44.900 just figuring out like how do we talk to them so that they understand that what they're 01:31:44.900 --> 01:31:49.940 doing is wrong and they agree with my position and they change they're not talking at all 01:31:49.940 --> 01:31:54.500 specifically about like how do we get to know this person how do we try to understand them 01:31:54.500 --> 01:32:00.620 it's no how do we in a nice way tell them they need to change how do we tell them nicely 01:32:00.620 --> 01:32:06.540 that they need to repent from who they are they're more focused yeah they're more focused 01:32:06.540 --> 01:32:11.260 on what you're doing wrong than who you are they're more focused on trying to correct 01:32:11.260 --> 01:32:16.340 you they're trying to fix you they're more concerned with that than just you that's why 01:32:16.340 --> 01:32:20.540 they're going on about how how do we talk to these people like how about you just talk 01:32:20.540 --> 01:32:24.300 to them like a person i don't didn't think it was that hard to treat people as people 01:32:24.300 --> 01:32:31.420 uh okay here's a trick well i don't it's out of context at this point but literally they 01:32:31.420 --> 01:32:37.860 use the phrase deliver you from whatever you're struggling with you know the world's solution 01:32:37.860 --> 01:32:44.580 on what can deliver um you from your you know whatever whatever you're struggling with like 01:32:44.580 --> 01:32:51.220 what kind of savior complex do these people have like they trying to quote deliver people 01:32:51.220 --> 01:32:58.000 from what they're struggling with and then sloper goes on to generalize being lgbtq plus 01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:03.100 as uh people who have sexual sin so he tries to generalize like hey we're all in this together 01:33:03.100 --> 01:33:09.100 we all have our own sexual sin we're all in the same boat when it comes to you know um 01:33:09.100 --> 01:33:14.700 dealing with sexual sins and temptations and that's just a part of this group of people 01:33:14.700 --> 01:33:22.300 that have sexual sin like stop if i if i step out and and and cheat on my wife with this 01:33:22.300 --> 01:33:28.700 person you know every everything you were just saying like all those desires and temptations 01:33:28.700 --> 01:33:34.820 could be there in that but in that context and situation you know um yeah uh my life 01:33:34.820 --> 01:33:40.740 is gonna change you know after and what i have now is good and you know so as you were 01:33:40.740 --> 01:33:45.500 saying that it was like wow that that that that could go for for other areas too other 01:33:45.500 --> 01:33:55.740 sins and he associates it with cheating on one's wife he considers being gay or trans 01:33:55.740 --> 01:34:02.260 or just queer in general as similar to someone who cheats on their wife or like not even 01:34:02.260 --> 01:34:09.260 that being asexual or like any of the other things really it lumps it all as sexual sin 01:34:09.260 --> 01:34:14.660 all of it it lumps it all of it together it's stupid it bothered me a lot that's where i 01:34:14.660 --> 01:34:18.940 left off i just gave up it was getting to like just little one sentence bits or just 01:34:18.940 --> 01:34:25.700 like phrases i was like i'm done i'm sick of it yeah yeah so that part happens uh at 01:34:25.700 --> 01:34:31.820 about 40 minutes in and so this episode is 50 minutes long they pretty much end the conversation 01:34:31.820 --> 01:34:37.860 there um well that conversation they mentioned they didn't have a plan again obviously they 01:34:37.860 --> 01:34:45.980 didn't have a plan my god um didn't have a plan at all um and then they mention an article 01:34:45.980 --> 01:34:55.620 there was a guy in germany who got 90 covid vaccines and then all of the extra cards they 01:34:55.620 --> 01:35:01.380 he sold so they were legitimate batch numbers he sold them off um they make jokes about 01:35:01.380 --> 01:35:07.380 this i mean it's don't get 90 covid vaccines like uh testament to how safe these mrna 01:35:07.380 --> 01:35:12.200 vaccines are that that's like he's not dead but don't do that obviously not good no need 01:35:12.200 --> 01:35:17.860 for that also and then selling these cards was not a good choice as well whatever but 01:35:17.860 --> 01:35:21.820 the thing that got me just really quickly it doesn't relate to anything else but i'm 01:35:21.820 --> 01:35:27.540 just mad the thing that got me the most about this was the language they use about the vaccine 01:35:27.540 --> 01:35:33.740 they didn't outright say it was bad or anything like that they just made jokes using far right 01:35:33.740 --> 01:35:41.900 conspiracy language about microchips um saying stuff about being magnetic uh magneto stuff 01:35:41.900 --> 01:35:47.780 um so they say things like far right conspiracy theories like this might you might die in 01:35:47.780 --> 01:35:53.620 30 years you might not they call it the fauci ouchy microchip being magnetic like magneto 01:35:53.620 --> 01:35:58.700 just conspiratorial jokes and things that they start saying as a joke um i think the 01:35:58.700 --> 01:36:04.300 problem is it doesn't it comes off kind of like a joke but at the same time i've heard 01:36:04.300 --> 01:36:09.940 these things from actual other people not joking and the power the position of power 01:36:09.940 --> 01:36:15.940 that the hosts are in over their listeners it's just a worrying trend to have to being 01:36:15.940 --> 01:36:22.420 so casual about covet in general um and being so casual about vaccinations in a time where 01:36:22.420 --> 01:36:27.940 it's very important to get vaccinated to protect yourself and things like that i didn't really 01:36:27.940 --> 01:36:31.860 like that and i'm not i thought it was weird that they even talked about it but that's 01:36:31.860 --> 01:36:36.300 just what the last was so you didn't miss anything at the end there yeah it was like 01:36:36.300 --> 01:36:43.420 okay that don't say things like that to children yeah it's fine because i also think most of 01:36:43.420 --> 01:36:47.820 people listening would be like high schoolers so give them some credit there they should 01:36:47.820 --> 01:36:54.140 be old enough to understand certain things yeah i mean but it's just the it's the position 01:36:54.140 --> 01:36:59.460 of power that teachers have in high schoolers lives um i mean maybe it's just a main thing 01:36:59.460 --> 01:37:06.060 i just remember really looking up to um my teachers and taking everything they said as 01:37:06.060 --> 01:37:10.860 um more factual than anything else not saying that everything they said i took as fact but 01:37:10.860 --> 01:37:16.100 i was more inclined to believe things that they said versus um other people in my life 01:37:16.100 --> 01:37:21.100 just because i'm around them so much and they teach me actual information so sometimes it's 01:37:21.100 --> 01:37:25.100 hard to parse through and you know you're in high school so you're busy you know so 01:37:25.100 --> 01:37:28.900 it's hard to parse through everything someone tells you so sometimes you just repeat things 01:37:28.900 --> 01:37:34.820 yeah that's what that's what college is for because you know statistically there's a bunch 01:37:34.820 --> 01:37:39.460 of kids that don't go back to church after they go to college yeah i wonder why that 01:37:39.460 --> 01:37:45.020 happens so odd kind of a crisis they should figure that out or i don't know i would have 01:37:45.020 --> 01:37:50.820 been more likely to have like stayed within that world if they would have introduced me 01:37:50.820 --> 01:37:57.820 to just more concepts and ideas and perspectives but they didn't and so i got those at school 01:37:57.820 --> 01:38:04.900 to close us out here again i just want to apologize for anything that we may have misinterpreted 01:38:04.900 --> 01:38:11.660 or misrepresented in this episode again like chris said please reach out uh inform us we 01:38:11.660 --> 01:38:16.780 would love to learn more from other people we'd love to hear the different perspectives 01:38:16.780 --> 01:38:22.620 and and just learn more because honestly i'm just an ignorant person as well so apologies 01:38:22.620 --> 01:38:28.040 for any misrepresentations please let us know how we can make it better and i just want 01:38:28.040 --> 01:38:33.140 to say again i'm sorry for statistic i know statistics take groups of people and lump 01:38:33.140 --> 01:38:37.000 them together and that's problematic when you're talking about individuals i really 01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:41.980 just was focusing on specific things to show how dangerous language like this is and i 01:38:41.980 --> 01:38:49.100 do want to reach out to the hosts of hallway digressions as well we want this to be almost 01:38:49.100 --> 01:38:54.560 an accountability and a conversation we want to bring up problematic points and topics 01:38:54.560 --> 01:38:59.740 and things that we find our issues we want to talk about them we want to help and bring 01:38:59.740 --> 01:39:05.620 them to uh the host's attention and just really we don't want this to be an attack we're not 01:39:05.620 --> 01:39:10.540 trying to make this an attack we want this to be like a line of open communication and 01:39:10.540 --> 01:39:15.540 just to explain why things on the podcast are problematic and why that they're they 01:39:15.540 --> 01:39:30.340 have issues and hopefully explain a different perspective about things as well