WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.440 Welcome to Hallway Transgressions. I'm Chris. 00:02.760 --> 00:03.440 I'm Ryan. 00:04.080 --> 00:11.560 We are two private school alumni and this podcast serves to examine the worldviews of Christian pastors and teachers through a postmodern lens. 00:12.320 --> 00:14.120 Hey, Ryan, what's your bright spot? 00:15.360 --> 00:27.800 Well, for this week, I went to PetSmart and got both of our cats, Nezuko and Kiri, we got them harnesses because we want them to be walking cats. 00:27.800 --> 00:31.800 So, we want them to go outside because they were outside cats at one point. 00:31.960 --> 00:33.440 So, we want them to experience that again. 00:33.440 --> 00:36.560 But we got, well, they didn't have any cat harnesses there. 00:36.720 --> 00:42.840 So, I went to the dog section and got extra small dog harnesses, but they can still get out of them. 00:43.120 --> 00:44.960 But it's pretty funny looking at them with them on. 00:44.960 --> 00:50.080 I still put them on them every day and I'm trying to get them to walk in them because all they do is just kind of fall over. 00:50.840 --> 00:54.120 That's my bright spot for this week. 00:54.120 --> 00:55.360 It is a harness trading. 00:55.800 --> 00:56.160 How about you? 00:56.160 --> 01:00.120 That's so funny. That's what our cats, they don't like their harness. 01:00.120 --> 01:03.200 They just kind of flop over and wait for them to take it off. 01:03.560 --> 01:05.120 I don't have a leash yet either. 01:05.120 --> 01:09.600 We just have the harnesses because I didn't want to spend, they're like $25 for a leash. 01:10.160 --> 01:12.800 So, I have bungee cords. 01:14.160 --> 01:19.400 I attached a bungee cord to one of them just to see if I could get them to walk and they just kind of lay there. 01:19.400 --> 01:21.760 I can like pull them, they'll just kind of like get dragged. 01:23.000 --> 01:25.320 So, we'll make progress eventually. 01:25.320 --> 01:28.080 I did order better cat harnesses from Chewy. 01:28.360 --> 01:29.200 Chewy sponsor us. 01:32.080 --> 01:33.000 Anyways, yeah, what? 01:33.400 --> 01:34.960 How about you? What's your bright spot for the week? 01:35.280 --> 01:41.400 My bright spot is I've been so excited to start a podcast like this and I finally convinced you to join me. 01:41.800 --> 01:51.640 And then tonight, I was just making dinner before it recorded and I just sliced my finger while I was cutting bread with just a serrated blade right into the tip of my finger. 01:51.640 --> 01:56.320 And I went to the emergency clinic and I said I don't need stitches. 01:56.320 --> 01:58.000 So, that's a win. 01:58.960 --> 02:00.960 That's probably less expensive to you. 02:01.640 --> 02:02.040 I don't know. 02:02.040 --> 02:03.080 I haven't gotten the bill yet. 02:03.720 --> 02:05.000 I haven't had stitches before. 02:05.400 --> 02:08.240 So, I don't know what that would be like or how expensive it would be. 02:08.840 --> 02:15.400 The last time I was in the emergency clinic was about 10 years ago because I smashed my other finger in a door and sliced it open. 02:15.400 --> 02:16.760 I needed three stitches. 02:17.720 --> 02:20.200 So, that was the last time I got my tightness shot too. 02:20.200 --> 02:21.800 So, I got another one of those. 02:21.800 --> 02:22.440 There you go. 02:22.440 --> 02:23.960 Just keep enough to day on your shots. 02:24.600 --> 02:26.120 Give it another 10 years. 02:26.120 --> 02:28.840 You'll probably smash slash cut your finger open again. 02:28.840 --> 02:30.200 You'll get another tightness shot. 02:30.440 --> 02:32.280 I'm sure it's two out of 10. 02:32.280 --> 02:33.400 I got eight more to come. 02:35.960 --> 02:36.360 All right. 02:36.360 --> 02:38.760 You want to jump in here? 02:39.320 --> 02:40.040 Yeah, let's go. 02:40.280 --> 02:48.520 So, I started out since this is our first episode with the cast of this podcast we're responding to. 02:48.520 --> 02:54.360 So, we're responding to hallway digressions by the Lakewood Park Bible Department. 02:54.360 --> 03:00.440 And we both went to school at Lakewood Park. 03:00.440 --> 03:05.640 So, we have a little bit of history there with one of the teachers. 03:05.640 --> 03:10.120 But the first one and arguably the host is Luke Johnson. 03:11.000 --> 03:17.960 So, he graduated with a bachelor's of science in religion and a minor in biblical studies from the good old Luke Johnson. 03:17.960 --> 03:20.760 The good old Liberty University in 2013. 03:21.400 --> 03:27.160 And then he went to Grace Theological Seminary and got an MA in local church ministry. 03:28.680 --> 03:36.280 And now he is currently a student at the Grace Theological Seminary in the doctor of ministry program. 03:37.000 --> 03:40.600 He's just moved across three different schools. 03:43.560 --> 03:45.640 This is Grace twice though. 03:45.640 --> 03:47.800 Grace for that post-grad. 03:47.800 --> 03:49.800 Or is it two different graces? 03:49.800 --> 03:50.920 There's just one, right? 03:50.920 --> 03:51.960 I think it's just one. 03:51.960 --> 03:52.680 Yeah. 03:52.680 --> 03:59.800 So, he writes in his bio that he began his time in ministry as a youth pastor for four years. 03:59.800 --> 04:04.680 And then transitioned into a teaching position at Lakewood. 04:05.400 --> 04:14.760 And after three years as a Bible teacher, he moved into a pastoral position with the church as the associate pastor of family and student discipleship. 04:14.760 --> 04:24.920 And he continues to teach Bible with the school, oversee the spiritual formation of the student body at LPCS, and pastor their families and students at Lakewood Park Baptist Church. 04:24.920 --> 04:26.200 He's the pastor at Lakewood? 04:26.200 --> 04:30.440 He's the associate pastor of family and student discipleship. 04:30.440 --> 04:30.940 Okay. 04:31.480 --> 04:32.680 So, not the head pastor. 04:33.240 --> 04:34.200 Gotcha. 04:34.200 --> 04:41.880 Can I just say, I think it's crazy that we always start people out in youth ministry where there's the most malleable people. 04:41.880 --> 04:47.240 It makes no sense to me why we put just like, oh, you want to help out in the church? 04:47.240 --> 04:48.520 We'll put you with the youth. 04:49.400 --> 04:57.480 We'll let you just form these young people and have them have to deconstruct that later on in life. 04:57.480 --> 04:58.040 Yeah. 04:58.040 --> 05:05.640 While you're learning how to teach and counsel and minister, but you're doing it with really young people. 05:05.640 --> 05:06.040 Yeah. 05:06.040 --> 05:06.200 Yeah. 05:06.200 --> 05:07.400 It's super cool. 05:07.400 --> 05:15.720 I would rather have people do it with adults who can actually like challenge them and not just kids who feel like they can't say anything because like, oh, it's an adult. 05:15.720 --> 05:18.040 They know more than the type of deal. 05:18.040 --> 05:23.640 Like we're always taught just like basically don't object or don't go against anything adults say. 05:23.640 --> 05:23.880 Yeah. 05:23.880 --> 05:30.280 I mean, arguably that's what they teach in the church anyway, as an adult too, is don't argue with the pastor. 05:31.240 --> 05:32.440 Yeah, that's true. 05:32.440 --> 05:37.960 I just think it's silly that I don't know, I don't think people should start in the youth ministry. 05:37.960 --> 05:47.000 I mean, I was at a church in the youth ministry while I was going through school and they probably second guessed that after they were asking me about my beliefs. 05:50.600 --> 05:52.600 I got interrogated at one point. 05:52.600 --> 05:53.640 It was not fun. 05:54.520 --> 05:56.360 That sounds like a church to me. 05:57.720 --> 05:58.760 Yeah, a good time. 05:58.760 --> 05:59.640 Good time. 05:59.640 --> 06:03.560 Yeah, arguably youth ministry probably just shouldn't even exist. 06:03.560 --> 06:06.920 But I think that's a conversation for a different episode. 06:08.200 --> 06:10.360 Let's leave that job to daycares. 06:11.640 --> 06:12.680 Daycares and schools. 06:15.160 --> 06:16.920 America's healthiest institutions. 06:20.200 --> 06:21.720 Are there any healthy ones? 06:21.720 --> 06:24.040 Like are there any good place for children? 06:24.040 --> 06:25.240 Go children don't have rights. 06:25.240 --> 06:27.640 They just got to do whatever they're told anyway. 06:27.640 --> 06:29.480 I like the library. 06:29.480 --> 06:30.760 I think it's pretty good. 06:30.760 --> 06:33.720 Our most social institution really. 06:33.720 --> 06:35.720 What kids go to libraries anymore? 06:35.720 --> 06:36.680 I don't know. 06:36.680 --> 06:37.720 Is there Fortnite there? 06:38.520 --> 06:41.320 Anyway, so he has two other podcasts actually. 06:41.320 --> 06:47.720 He has a healthy homes podcast and one called 21 minutes to encourage your walk with Jesus in 2021. 06:48.440 --> 06:51.560 And I'm sure we'll be digging into those at some point as well. 06:52.520 --> 06:53.480 Yeah, sounds fun. 06:53.480 --> 06:58.120 Yeah, so our former Bible teacher, Nick DiDomenico. 06:59.160 --> 07:03.960 He was an unbeliever until college when he found Jesus at Penn State University. 07:04.600 --> 07:07.880 From there, he transferred to Baptist Bible College and seminary 07:07.880 --> 07:11.400 and got his bachelor's of science and pastoral studies and counseling. 07:12.280 --> 07:16.760 And after that, he went and worked in a church and then came to Lakewood. 07:16.760 --> 07:19.320 He's had a few roles there, but has mostly been teaching. 07:19.880 --> 07:22.920 And I think it's been over 20 years at Lakewood. 07:22.920 --> 07:26.360 His favorite course to teach is the infamous UTT Courts, 07:26.920 --> 07:29.080 which stands for Understanding the Times, 07:30.040 --> 07:33.160 which is basically just a course to dismantle every worldview 07:33.160 --> 07:36.120 to prove that Christianity is the only viable one. 07:36.120 --> 07:39.560 You take it your senior year and it is, of course, mandatory. 07:40.200 --> 07:46.280 It's pretty bullshit and very obviously slanted to bias a Christian worldview, 07:46.280 --> 07:48.040 but I do have to give it a little credit. 07:48.040 --> 07:53.640 It was my first step in pushing me towards deconstructing my faith. 07:53.640 --> 07:56.360 Yeah, and I had a good time memorizing fallacies. 07:56.360 --> 07:57.400 That was always fun. 07:57.400 --> 07:58.680 No, that was the year before. 07:59.240 --> 07:59.720 Never mind. 07:59.720 --> 08:01.720 That was the 11th grade class. 08:01.720 --> 08:06.520 UTT, we had one of the other people that's on the show that we're talking about. 08:06.520 --> 08:10.760 Yeah, we didn't really have his course, unfortunately. 08:11.320 --> 08:14.840 But we did vicariously live it through, or at least I did. 08:14.840 --> 08:18.760 I had friends that were a year above me that took his course, 08:18.760 --> 08:22.120 and I went and sat in on some of those classes. 08:22.120 --> 08:23.880 Yeah, you want to talk about the final? 08:25.640 --> 08:29.560 Yeah, so this, the final, which who knows if it's still around. 08:29.560 --> 08:32.520 I bet it is, but that's just an assumption. 08:32.520 --> 08:34.120 The final that would be for this course. 08:34.120 --> 08:36.520 So this course teaches you the different worldviews, right? 08:36.520 --> 08:40.200 And of course, like Chris said, it is very biased towards Christianity. 08:40.200 --> 08:45.960 But basically at the end, Mr. D would sit at the front of the class, 08:45.960 --> 08:51.160 and each student would have to go up, and he would role play one of those worldviews, 08:51.160 --> 08:55.720 while the student would have to figure out that worldview. 08:55.720 --> 09:00.040 And I think the main gist was figuring out the worldview, 09:00.040 --> 09:05.080 but you can feel the evangelical tendencies behind that, 09:05.080 --> 09:07.640 because the whole point is to find their worldview 09:07.640 --> 09:13.320 so that you know the right slant to use to evangelize Christianity to them. 09:13.320 --> 09:19.000 So 10th grade Bible was apologetics, 11th grade Bible was theology, 09:19.000 --> 09:22.280 and the senior year Bible was UTT. 09:22.280 --> 09:25.160 So it's just all just building up to the big old, 09:26.040 --> 09:31.720 making little evangelical soldiers who can argue for Christianity, 09:31.720 --> 09:37.080 and somehow preach to someone with a completely different worldview 09:37.080 --> 09:39.880 and show them that Christianity is the right worldview, 09:39.880 --> 09:43.880 which I'm not, I don't know, somehow that made sense, I guess. 09:43.880 --> 09:45.880 Chris Really worked for us. 09:47.000 --> 09:49.400 They did a good job brainwashing us. 09:49.400 --> 09:51.640 Chris For a little bit there. 09:51.640 --> 09:53.800 Chris It lasted a few years. 09:53.800 --> 09:54.520 Good job, guys. 09:54.520 --> 10:00.520 Chris I don't like thinking about that class too much, but... 10:00.520 --> 10:03.880 Chris I barely remember much of that class. 10:03.880 --> 10:07.080 I kind of coasted through high school most of the time in senior year. 10:07.080 --> 10:10.200 I was just doing whatever I wanted to do that year. 10:10.200 --> 10:12.440 It was just kind of a blur. 10:12.440 --> 10:14.920 That's where I kind of went off the rails for a little bit. 10:14.920 --> 10:17.640 I want to say off the rails, but I didn't have, yeah, 10:17.640 --> 10:20.120 I explored a lot of different things that year. 10:20.120 --> 10:24.040 And yeah, I blame most of my friends I hang out with most 10:24.040 --> 10:25.560 were like a year older than me. 10:25.560 --> 10:30.120 So they graduated and the people that I ended up hanging out with that year, 10:30.120 --> 10:31.080 I'm still friends with them. 10:31.080 --> 10:32.280 I think we had a good time. 10:32.280 --> 10:34.600 I don't regret anything I did that year, 10:34.600 --> 10:39.000 but it would be questionable for, I would say for any 18 year old. 10:39.000 --> 10:45.560 Chris And the newest host of this podcast is Jed Barber. 10:45.560 --> 10:50.200 He went to Taylor University and double majored in biblical studies and history. 10:50.200 --> 10:53.400 His mom is an absolute foundation at Lakewood. 10:53.400 --> 10:57.240 So he grew up at the school, honestly, probably spent more time there than at home. 10:57.240 --> 10:59.080 And they talk about that in the episode. 10:59.080 --> 11:00.760 And it was convincing evidence. 11:00.760 --> 11:06.680 At Lakewood, he teaches US history and Bible 10, which is the apologetics class. 11:06.680 --> 11:09.880 And he teaches one semester of geography. 11:09.880 --> 11:14.040 And then next semester, it'll be current events and mass media. 11:14.040 --> 11:17.640 And it just makes me laugh thinking about doing a Christian worldview 11:18.280 --> 11:21.800 and mixing that with critical thinking in the media. 11:21.800 --> 11:24.200 I have in my notes just a LOL. 11:24.200 --> 11:25.800 Jed Yeah. 11:25.800 --> 11:28.040 Chris Is there anything else you want to say about him? 11:28.040 --> 11:28.540 Any of them? 11:28.540 --> 11:32.360 Jed Um, not necessarily. 11:32.920 --> 11:34.760 I don't really know Luke Johnson. 11:35.400 --> 11:39.240 Mr. D I've had my issues with in school and out. 11:39.240 --> 11:45.640 And then Jed was just an underclassman kid who really just seemed like a little geek. 11:46.360 --> 11:48.200 Like we're we're geeks. 11:48.200 --> 11:51.640 He was kind of on our level, but like a little bit more. 11:51.640 --> 11:55.000 Like he just makes me think of like the kids in Stranger Things, 11:55.000 --> 11:56.920 like playing D&D down in the basement. 11:56.920 --> 11:58.200 Chris Yeah. What's next? 11:58.200 --> 12:01.560 Chris So Ryan, how do you feel about worship? 12:01.560 --> 12:05.080 Ryan What do you mean by worship? 12:05.080 --> 12:11.160 Because first of all, with us growing up, worship was always like the music singing portion. 12:11.160 --> 12:13.320 Everyone would just call that worship. 12:13.320 --> 12:15.080 And I always had an issue with that. 12:15.080 --> 12:17.560 So what do you mean by worship? 12:17.560 --> 12:19.480 Chris You know, that's exactly why I phrased it like that. 12:19.480 --> 12:20.840 Because that's what you're going to say. 12:22.600 --> 12:23.960 Singing specifically. 12:23.960 --> 12:28.520 Ryan Okay, well, I was a part of the worship team at 12:28.520 --> 12:32.520 Lakewood for three of my high school years, 10th through 12th grade. 12:32.520 --> 12:40.440 And my I don't know, my biggest issue with that is more about like song choices and emotional 12:40.440 --> 12:50.040 manipulation. I feel like the music in churches and in school is meant to get an emotional 12:50.040 --> 12:55.400 response out of people before hearing a message. So they hear it in a certain way after having 12:55.400 --> 13:00.760 their emotions heightened, which is just a very manipulative thing, in my opinion, I know they 13:00.760 --> 13:05.800 probably don't mean to do it that way, but it works. And that's why they do it. And they see it as the 13:05.800 --> 13:11.480 Holy Spirit moving and not as, oh, there's a bunch of kids with a bunch of hormones racing through 13:11.480 --> 13:17.800 them. They're obviously going to react very emotionally to a lot of these things. So yeah, 13:17.800 --> 13:23.640 my thing with worship is I didn't I don't like it really not the way it is right now. I would rather 13:23.640 --> 13:31.960 it's way more authentic or genuine when it doesn't necessarily sound like a show like a concert. I 13:31.960 --> 13:36.040 could go on a whole rabbit trail about worship and worship music. 13:36.040 --> 13:41.960 Yeah, that's where that's that's where we're going. So in the in the episode, I took a quote from 13:41.960 --> 13:45.880 they were asking they're talking about the junior senior retreat. And that's just where 13:45.880 --> 13:52.440 obviously the juniors and the seniors will go to camp somewhere for a couple days as like a 13:52.440 --> 13:59.640 breakaway trip. It's kind of spiritually motivated. You do a lot of worship, you do a lot of talking, 13:59.640 --> 14:05.720 you do all the all the fun stuff, bearing your soul. But Dee mentions that it wasn't like chapel, 14:05.720 --> 14:11.480 a lot of them were singing and raising their hands. And that just got me thinking back on just 14:11.480 --> 14:17.320 the junior senior retreat. And he also mentions how there was a two hour student led devotional 14:17.320 --> 14:22.600 for the seniors, but apparently no one talked in the junior class. So that just got me thinking 14:22.600 --> 14:28.760 about the concept of the jealous God who demands worship and how worship is commanded in the Bible. 14:28.760 --> 14:35.160 Like in Exodus 34 14, for you shall for you shall worship no other God for the Lord whose name is 14:35.160 --> 14:42.200 jealous is a jealous God. Deuteronomy 1231, you shall not worship the Lord your God in that way 14:42.200 --> 14:47.400 for every abominable thing and that the Lord hates they have done for their gods for they even burn 14:47.400 --> 14:53.240 their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods. And sometimes even in the same sentence, 14:53.240 --> 14:59.800 sacrifice was commanded like in second King 1736. It says, but the Lord who brought you up out of 14:59.800 --> 15:05.320 the land of Egypt with great power and stretch out arm, him you shall fear and him you shall worship 15:05.320 --> 15:12.280 and him you shall do sacrifice. Which is always a great thing in the Bible. I like in the Old 15:12.280 --> 15:17.720 Testament just how many people get, you know, murdered. So. 15:17.720 --> 15:18.840 Stan It's a lot of it. 15:18.840 --> 15:20.600 James It's so bad. 15:20.600 --> 15:28.840 Stan Oh, no, no. But yeah, Bible is full of murder and a lot of other things. We'll leave it at that. 15:28.840 --> 15:35.400 James Yeah, I agree. I don't like the contrast that he makes between like, oh, they were raising 15:35.400 --> 15:41.400 their hands there unlike chapel like chapels bad because people aren't raising their hands 15:41.400 --> 15:46.680 and participating in the way that they think they should. Like, I always felt ostracized 15:46.680 --> 15:51.560 because of that because I was never one like, yeah, when I was on the stage, like, I had to sing 15:52.280 --> 15:57.560 and play. It was a performance really. I was performing for people. But when I was in like, 15:57.560 --> 16:03.720 the crowds and places, I always felt ostracized just because I never felt like I wanted to sing 16:03.720 --> 16:08.680 the songs or raise my hand or like, I didn't feel anything during those. And I always saw all these 16:08.680 --> 16:14.280 people around me doing those things. And it's like, am I missing out on something? Am I doing 16:14.280 --> 16:22.040 something wrong? It's just when you set a standard like that, it can be harmful to students that do 16:22.040 --> 16:27.640 not that aren't wired that way that that's not their way. Like, it doesn't work for them. Not 16:27.640 --> 16:33.160 everyone like, there's not like a standard of every person needs to be like this in order to 16:33.160 --> 16:37.960 be a good Christian. Like, I feel like that's what they what they do. They're like, this is good. 16:37.960 --> 16:41.720 This is bad. If you do anything different, then you're wrong. 16:41.720 --> 16:47.400 James Yeah, it gives you I'm the same way. I never felt the same with singing. Like, I don't 16:47.400 --> 16:53.480 I enjoy music and I enjoy listening to good people sing. And I enjoy listening to good people play 16:53.480 --> 16:58.280 the guitar, but I'm not one to play the guitar. I'm not one to sing. And like, I never felt 16:58.280 --> 17:06.200 deeply spiritually moved into raising my hands or dancing or singing. And I remember one sermon of 17:07.480 --> 17:12.440 one sermon when I went to a different church, where they were talking about it was like a 17:12.440 --> 17:17.960 guys chapel kind of there. It was a guy sermon kind of thing where it was like, like you guys can sing 17:17.960 --> 17:22.040 too. You don't have to be embarrassed. It's not like feminine to sing kind of thing. And I just 17:22.040 --> 17:27.000 like, yeah, but what if I just don't want to sing like I don't feel that emotional connection there. 17:27.000 --> 17:33.080 And it just gives you such an anxious attachment. Yeah, definitely. And the only times I ever did 17:33.080 --> 17:38.520 like, like I have raised my hands before, and it was literally out of peer pressure, like it turns 17:38.520 --> 17:43.880 into a thing where it's like, if I'm not raising my hands, I'm going to look like a heathen, like I 17:43.880 --> 17:51.720 am not worshipping. And a lot of the argument is that they say it's not the worship isn't for a 17:51.720 --> 17:58.680 jealous God, but it's for your pleasure. But I mean, it's not seems like it doesn't seem to be 17:58.680 --> 18:03.800 that way in the Bible. And it just kind of sounds like some reconciliation taped onto a command to 18:03.800 --> 18:11.720 make it easier to swallow later. I pulled this quote from Michael Lang, a Christian worship leader 18:11.720 --> 18:19.400 and artist. And he says, when we understand the greatness of God, the stability of his character, 18:19.400 --> 18:25.320 the perfection of his justice, the depth of his depth of his grace, the limitless nature of his 18:25.320 --> 18:30.840 love, the wonder of his holiness and the sacrifice of his son, it should not be difficult for us to 18:30.840 --> 18:36.760 be moved greatly in our desire to worship God and worship him passionately. So if we take this 18:36.760 --> 18:41.640 opinion as the correct interpretation of being commanded to worship, then every Sunday, are we 18:41.640 --> 18:47.560 manipulated by music into being moved greatly in our desire to worship God passionately? And if 18:47.560 --> 18:55.080 that's the case, then are those feelings even real? Like, are we really feeling the Holy Spirit move 18:55.080 --> 19:01.240 through us if we're just manipulated by dopamine releases from listening to music? Yeah, I would 19:01.240 --> 19:08.760 be more on the side of no, that is not the Holy Spirit. That is chemical reactions in your brain 19:08.760 --> 19:15.240 from auditory signals. But I remember always being told stuff like that of like, the Holy 19:15.240 --> 19:20.280 Spirit's moving through this place. And like, it was always said with such command. It's a type of 19:20.280 --> 19:25.560 persuasion. Like it's trying to get people to believe that. Yeah, manifesting the Holy Spirit 19:25.560 --> 19:31.560 to come. Oh, they're manifesting. Yeah, exactly. There's conditions. It's a ritual. Or to a moron 19:31.560 --> 19:38.840 gathered. Also, people would always use that phrase, so wrong. That was literally the stupid 19:38.840 --> 19:44.360 part of the Bible is confronting people. Had to do with confronting your neighbor when he's doing 19:44.360 --> 19:49.720 bad actions or something. Not to do it by yourself, but to bring someone else. I do have to give 19:49.720 --> 19:56.760 a D credit. He did point that out to us. He pointed out the Jeremiah 29, 11 too. I did appreciate that. 19:58.120 --> 20:04.040 Yeah, that one does annoys me so much now. So, I don't give him credit for that one because it's 20:04.040 --> 20:10.360 just everywhere. And like, it always just makes me upset. But on the other hand, it gives people 20:10.360 --> 20:14.920 comfort. So, maybe they should do what they want to do. Are we utilitarian? Are we saying the ends 20:14.920 --> 20:20.760 justify the means? If it gives this person, if false hope makes a person feel better, then it's 20:20.760 --> 20:28.360 worth it. I would say most likely in the context of a Bible verse. Yeah, if someone reads that and it 20:28.360 --> 20:33.800 comforts them, sure. But if they keep using that to tell other people not to worry about stuff, 20:34.360 --> 20:38.600 you should probably still worry about certain things. Don't just drop everything and leave it 20:38.600 --> 20:46.280 to God. Yeah, I heard that a lot too. Yeah, God doesn't seem to take that away from me. 20:46.280 --> 20:52.040 Can't just leave my stress there. But you sure will take my money. Anyway, 20:54.600 --> 20:57.400 I guess that's not God, it's the church. We should text the church. 20:58.520 --> 21:03.960 We should. I always remember bonding and having a great time with classmates at the Junior Senior 21:03.960 --> 21:08.520 retreat. But I never remember those connections really staying around once we entered into the 21:08.520 --> 21:14.120 real world again. I'd say that was true across the board at any church camp for youth group as well. 21:14.120 --> 21:18.600 It was just a place to be on fire for the Lord because it was the only focus for it was the only 21:18.600 --> 21:22.680 focus for a week. And once you got back into the real world, the focus would wane as you work 21:22.680 --> 21:27.560 through life. It just always felt like emotional manipulation without a purpose. You mean to say 21:27.560 --> 21:32.440 that you didn't stay on fire for God, Chris, how could you? You're supposed to keep you're supposed 21:32.440 --> 21:38.920 to keep the fire burning. It's always crazy that, you know, people would have spiritual highs or be 21:38.920 --> 21:43.880 on fire for God after some untraditional like not common event. Like it always happened like, 21:43.880 --> 21:49.960 oh, missions trips, oh, a Junior Senior retreat. Why did it always happen after events that weren't 21:49.960 --> 21:55.400 routine? Couldn't be emotional manipulation. Couldn't be that. 21:55.400 --> 22:02.040 It obviously isn't that. The Holy Spirit just tends to work more when people's schedules are 22:02.040 --> 22:05.800 changed and you know, they're not used to what they're experiencing. That's just how the Holy 22:05.800 --> 22:10.600 Spirit works, Chris. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were just talking about humans, right? Are we talking 22:10.600 --> 22:15.240 about like actually the Holy Spirit? Oh, I don't know. I don't know anything about the Holy Spirit. 22:15.240 --> 22:21.000 I feel like the more I think about the Holy Spirit, the less I know and it's very confusing. 22:22.120 --> 22:23.480 If the Trinity is even real. 22:23.480 --> 22:30.520 I'm sure the Trinity does not make sense. It was always the same thing as like the end of the week 22:30.520 --> 22:35.480 of a church camp or the reach of retreat. It's like you'd always have the same sermon like two 22:35.480 --> 22:39.800 nights before you'd have the big revival sermon and then the last night was like, make sure you 22:39.800 --> 22:44.040 stay on fire for the Lord's sermon and I was like, you know that it's not going to happen because 22:44.040 --> 22:48.920 you keep putting this sermon at the end here. Like you know, like statistically, we're just going 22:48.920 --> 22:54.040 to go back into our normal lives because that's just what we do and like you can't keep the 22:54.040 --> 22:58.600 conditions the same to keep us on fire for the Lord. So, is it just like you preach this and 22:58.600 --> 23:02.360 you just feel better? You're just like, my hands are washed to this, it's up to the Lord to keep 23:02.360 --> 23:08.280 them on fire now. Like that has always felt weird to me. Yeah, I don't think they see it like how 23:08.280 --> 23:13.480 we see it either because I just see it as like a means to guilt trip people too. It's like you 23:13.480 --> 23:17.800 were this way before, you remember how you felt here, why aren't you feeling that way now? And 23:17.800 --> 23:22.200 then you're like, oh, it's because I've been doing this, I've just been going through routine. It's 23:22.200 --> 23:28.040 like just guilt tripping kids. That's how I felt. It's just like you should feel guilty for not 23:28.040 --> 23:33.880 feeling this way type of deal. That's always great to do to growing teenagers and I mean, 23:33.880 --> 23:39.480 I went to my first camp in elementary school, so even younger than that, like just guilt trip and 23:39.480 --> 23:43.320 make them feel bad and that they're not good enough. That's not going to be a problem later. 23:43.320 --> 23:51.800 That's total depravity. We all fucking suck. You are a piece of shit. You are nothing. You're 23:51.800 --> 23:57.960 only anything because God decides that you are. That's terrible. I don't need you to tell me that. 23:57.960 --> 24:03.080 I tell myself that every day already. That's not true. You can't hurt me when I've already hurt myself. 24:03.080 --> 24:10.360 That's not true or maybe it is. Oh, for that, I just wanted to be different than the people that 24:10.360 --> 24:14.360 just spew that this is absolute truth. I can be wrong. Put that up there. 24:14.360 --> 24:16.280 Stan Just gonna throw that out there. 24:16.280 --> 24:22.120 James Just throw that out there. I am most likely wrong about a lot of things, but you know what, 24:22.120 --> 24:28.440 it's still fun to grow and learn new things and you know, maybe change, you know, like grow, 24:28.440 --> 24:35.320 like how growth requires change and not the same thing over and over again. 24:35.320 --> 24:41.960 Stan Would you say maybe you're evolving? James Oh, that's a forbidden word, Chris. 24:42.600 --> 24:47.480 Unless you include macro in front of it or micro. No, micro. I used the wrong one. 24:47.480 --> 24:50.040 Stan I'm trying not to cry. 24:50.040 --> 24:57.560 James Is this whole podcast just going to be inside jokes about our experience in a Christian school? 24:57.560 --> 25:05.720 James No, none of this is staying. Or maybe it should. I don't know. Who knows, maybe the kids 25:05.720 --> 25:11.000 that are at Lakewood right now still experience those exact same things because I, like I just 25:11.000 --> 25:16.280 said, like growth requires change. I doubt they have changed that much. I bet a lot of the stuff, 25:16.280 --> 25:21.160 like the building might look different, but a lot of the experience is still the same there. 25:21.160 --> 25:28.040 James Little teaser is that our cover art, the hallway in the background is the Lakewood High 25:28.040 --> 25:32.360 School hallway where we used to go to school and it looks the exact same. 25:32.360 --> 25:34.120 Stan Is that a recent picture? 25:34.120 --> 25:38.360 James Yeah, it was a picture from yesterday actually. 25:38.360 --> 25:43.400 Stan Oh my God. Yeah, that is slightly triggering to look at those hallways. 25:43.400 --> 25:45.560 James Yeah, that's why I put flames around it. 25:45.560 --> 25:53.800 Stan Burn it down. So, Barbara was talking about his critical thinking and media class 25:53.800 --> 25:59.000 and Johnson mentions, he goes, how often do you think you'll be using Babylon Bee in that class 25:59.000 --> 26:04.840 for news and information? And it was kind of a joke because Barbara replies, I'm sure they'll 26:04.840 --> 26:09.640 come up and them getting labeled as like a misinformation source, they are very clearly 26:09.640 --> 26:14.120 trying to be satirical. And you know, that was just really triggering to me. So, now we're just 26:14.120 --> 26:16.440 going to talk about the Babylon Bee for a long time. 26:16.440 --> 26:21.320 James Yeah, you go for it and inform me because I honestly have never heard of that before. 26:21.320 --> 26:27.000 Stan So, for those who don't know what the Babylon Bee is, it's a conservative version of The Onion 26:27.000 --> 26:33.480 where they write satirical funny takes on top of possibly real news stories. They started out 26:33.480 --> 26:41.880 poking fun at conservatives and then moved on to poking fun at the left wing. So, the problem with 26:41.880 --> 26:48.200 conservative media is it's not funny. Like, it's funny to laugh at someone poking fun at your 26:48.200 --> 26:53.800 subculture, which is how the Babylon Bee started. It's not so funny when your subculture tries to 26:53.800 --> 26:59.800 poke fun at another subculture and especially conservative commentary, it's not great. 27:01.800 --> 27:07.320 The conservative always likes to say that they're not given the same opportunities to be in comedy. 27:07.320 --> 27:13.640 I'm specifically talking about Dave Rubin and Steven Crowder, who always say that they're being 27:13.640 --> 27:21.080 oppressed and I don't know, I'm trying to be nice. They're always cut out and not given the same 27:21.080 --> 27:27.240 opportunities as other comedians, but that's because they're just not funny. And you don't 27:27.240 --> 27:33.880 get jobs being a comedian if you're not funny. So, the Babylon Bee, they have a problem right now is 27:33.880 --> 27:39.160 where they can't seem to get away from the same three jokes. Their first joke is just make fun 27:39.160 --> 27:45.000 of trans people. Their second joke is make fun of liberals for being triggered. And their third 27:45.000 --> 27:51.160 joke is just a basic shallow misunderstanding of an issue. They sometimes still poke fun at religion, 27:51.160 --> 27:58.920 but they don't get a lot of views for the religious satirical, or they don't get a lot of views for 27:58.920 --> 28:06.840 the religion satire compared to their culture war bullshit articles. People on the right wing 28:06.840 --> 28:11.880 really like the culture war. I mean, they created it, so of course they like it. And it's the only 28:11.880 --> 28:19.160 thing that they can all make fun of and agree on besides making America worse. My favorite part of 28:19.160 --> 28:26.760 the Babylon Bee is the onion wrote something about Elon Musk, and he just got really upset about it 28:26.760 --> 28:31.320 and said it wasn't funny on Twitter. And then the Babylon Bee wrote something really nice about Musk, 28:31.320 --> 28:37.320 and then Elon Musk tweeted at them and praised them. And then he went on a show or something, 28:37.320 --> 28:41.640 and they were super hyping it up that Elon Musk was going to be on there. And it's just really 28:41.640 --> 28:47.720 funny, he's so shallow with his ego that the onion made us some satire and he got really upset. And 28:47.720 --> 28:52.280 then the Bee was like, oh hey, if we praise him, then maybe we can be on his side. And now Elon 28:52.280 --> 28:56.760 Musk like really to his day, he really likes the Babylon Bee, he thinks they're very funny. 28:56.760 --> 29:03.240 Stan Wow. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now just to see what kind of articles are on here. 29:03.240 --> 29:05.400 Marshall What are the top ones right now? 29:05.400 --> 29:12.040 Stan Buzzing right now, the top one, 10 woke changes Disney is making the old cartoons. 29:13.640 --> 29:17.640 Some of these are, they don't, yeah, they don't seem to like, 29:17.640 --> 29:25.960 uh, they want to keep things from being a thing, I guess. Like, Snow White will be a black man 29:25.960 --> 29:32.200 accompanied by seven normal sized persons, each of a different gender. Like, here are 10 changes 29:32.200 --> 29:35.640 coming down the pike is what they're saying, they're making jokes about the changes they'll 29:35.640 --> 29:41.160 be making to old Disney classics because they don't think they were problematic, apparently. 29:41.160 --> 29:48.040 Marshall Yeah, and it's just the same jokes, like, it was a trans joke. 29:48.040 --> 29:50.280 Stan Pinocchio, the little wooden boy becomes a real girl. 29:50.280 --> 29:54.360 Marshall Yeah, every time, it's just like, it's just every time. 29:54.360 --> 30:02.040 Stan It has to do with homosexuality, this one's about polyeth. I think some of these are funny 30:02.040 --> 30:05.960 from my perspective, I know what they're trying to do, but I just think it's funny because 30:05.960 --> 30:10.920 there's the lady and the lady and the tramp and the tramp and the tramp. 30:11.560 --> 30:15.320 It's this polyamorous love story will normalize polyamory 30:15.320 --> 30:17.480 because I guess we need to normalize everything now. 30:17.480 --> 30:21.400 Marshall I fucking hate those songs. 30:21.400 --> 30:27.320 Stan Oh, this is great, I'm glad I learned about this website. 30:27.320 --> 30:32.120 Marshall You want to learn some awful shit about them because... 30:32.120 --> 30:38.200 Stan Yeah, tell me because I can see some of the articles on here where it just seems passive 30:38.200 --> 30:38.680 aggressive. 30:38.680 --> 30:44.520 Marshall So, they wrote a couple books, their newest one is the Babylon Bee Guide to Wokeness 30:44.520 --> 30:48.600 and I'm sure this is just going to be a treat. So, it was written by the website editors Kyle 30:48.600 --> 30:54.440 Mann and Joel Berry. In it, they made a drinking milk joke, which in case you're unaware, it's a 30:54.440 --> 30:59.240 reference to a 4chan meme that was a ruse to make it appear that white nationalists were using it 30:59.240 --> 31:04.200 as a meme, only for it to be then adopted by white nationalist Ernest Lee. And then conservatives 31:04.200 --> 31:10.760 got angry at the left for pointing this out. They got mad because they were now providing cover for 31:10.760 --> 31:16.920 a racist dog whistle, so now they're upset about that. They constantly quote grifters like James 31:16.920 --> 31:23.880 Lindsay, Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, etc. Let's dive into James Lindsay. So, they had an interview for 31:23.880 --> 31:30.280 their book launch and someone asked them who their expert was that they interviewed and they had said 31:30.280 --> 31:37.240 James Lindsay. So, I kind of scrolled through his Twitter profile and he tweets a lot about a lot of 31:37.240 --> 31:43.720 different topics and how they are communism. For example, he tweeted that being inclusive is doing 31:43.720 --> 31:50.120 a communism and that doing a COVID policy, that's communism, big old communism. 31:50.120 --> 31:57.880 It is. So, that tweet about the COVID policy, he quoted a tweet explaining how the Department of 31:57.880 --> 32:04.360 Education and states are going to use COVID-19 relief funding to help recruit and retain teachers. 32:04.360 --> 32:07.960 Big old communism right there. Retaining teachers. 32:10.520 --> 32:11.160 Communist. 32:13.720 --> 32:19.880 It gets so much worse, don't worry. So, here's the problem with all of this is that people take 32:19.880 --> 32:25.240 this shit super seriously. Like, their audience is like, like you can say that it's satire 32:26.200 --> 32:31.880 and you can compare it to the onion, but it's not, it's not really that. So, I went on Goodreads and 32:31.880 --> 32:36.760 I pulled a couple reviews and it's just like, let me just read these two, they're interesting. 32:37.640 --> 32:43.720 So, Connor Burke wrote, Babylon Bee's guide to wokeness is more than just a simple commentary 32:43.720 --> 32:49.560 on today's society and inevitable future. It is incredibly witty, intelligent, and flowerbed, 32:49.560 --> 32:55.160 and hilarious. The graphs and side comments are particularly humorous. Through the humor, 32:55.160 --> 33:00.680 the authors illustrate the faulty, non-existent logic of woke culture and warn against continuing 33:00.680 --> 33:07.160 forward towards culture-wide wokeism. This other review by, I'm gonna butcher this name. 33:07.160 --> 33:13.400 This other review by Rochelle states, highly entertaining and truthful. Truth and jest as 33:13.400 --> 33:18.760 they say. Satire is at its finest here. This will stay on my coffee table for a very long time and 33:18.760 --> 33:24.040 continue to entertain and educate my family and guests. Long live Babylon Bee with a little bee 33:24.040 --> 33:29.080 emoji. And this next one, this next one's long, but I promise it's worth it. Probably not because 33:29.080 --> 33:33.240 we're talking about the Babylon Bee. Ever since the ascendance of the woke Democrats and their 33:33.240 --> 33:38.520 destructive socialist agenda of destroying American values and history, Babylon Bee has been my 33:38.520 --> 33:44.920 refuge from depression. Their daily cartoons cheer me. Their piercing of radical hypocrisy so spot on 33:44.920 --> 33:49.560 that I've often daydreamed about sitting in their daily editorial meetings. I mean, how cool would 33:49.560 --> 33:54.360 that be? Now comes the Babylon Bee guide to wokeness. In a single volume, the editors have 33:54.360 --> 33:59.400 managed to squeeze in the essential rebuttal to left-wing craziness with huge dollops of the humor 33:59.400 --> 34:03.880 they are known for. With chapters on racism, brainwashing the next generation, and how to 34:03.880 --> 34:09.320 fight fascism with violence, they have exposed the duplicity of those running our country at the 34:09.320 --> 34:15.640 moment. But as a historian of women's suffrage, I was more amused by the chapter on feminism and 34:15.640 --> 34:20.040 gender. Because women are perpetually oppressed, the best way to liberate them is to turn them 34:20.040 --> 34:25.080 into men who sleep around, work grueling corporate jobs and avoid having kids, while allowing men to 34:25.080 --> 34:31.080 become women, thereby making women irrelevant as a category of humanity. Under this paradigm, 34:31.080 --> 34:35.880 wearing a pink knitted hat to represent your genitalia, getting an abortion, and shunning 34:35.880 --> 34:43.320 marriage are a must. As for LGBTQ plus people, they must be represented on 75% of all casting 34:43.320 --> 34:48.360 characters in TV and film. They require that we defeat Mike Pence once and for all, and that all 34:48.360 --> 34:53.640 our kids have access to essential puberty blockers. A delightful part of this section was a sample list 34:53.640 --> 34:59.080 of possible genders, including agender, bgender, nonbinary, and my favorite, two-spirit. I hope 34:59.080 --> 35:04.360 this book is a bestseller to validate the observation by author Mary Pettibone Poole, 35:04.360 --> 35:09.240 he who laughs last. And she didn't change the pronouns, I guess she's not woke, at least Babylon 35:09.240 --> 35:19.640 Bee is. The worst part is, so there was a research poll done by The Conversation, and almost, so they 35:19.640 --> 35:27.560 took claims by the Babylon Bee, they took their headlines and editorialized them a little bit 35:27.560 --> 35:35.160 for a survey, and almost 30% of people who identify as Republicans believe that the headlines were 35:35.160 --> 35:44.200 real. Like, it's, the problem with the Babylon Bee is that they hide behind this satire, like, 35:44.200 --> 35:49.800 oh it's funny comedy, but like people believe this, like they're just parroting these problematic 35:49.800 --> 35:58.280 points to a huge audience. And like it's, and it's always, it's always simple things where, 35:58.280 --> 36:05.000 like it's the same three jokes, and they just, just recycle the same jokes. And I've been doing 36:05.000 --> 36:13.160 a lot of thinking, and it's, it's just, it touches in on this, and it just touches in on this, 36:13.160 --> 36:20.280 how it's been, the concept of nuance has been degraded, and once you lose, and a lot of social 36:20.280 --> 36:25.960 and political issues right now, once you lose the concept of nuance, then you just lose the concept 36:25.960 --> 36:30.600 of a gray area in life, and the world totally becomes black and white, which is easier to create 36:30.600 --> 36:35.720 content for, and to create quick bucks. But like, it's the same thing you learn in church, that good 36:35.720 --> 36:40.600 and evil are the only two things that exist, like there's a right and a wrong, but like life isn't 36:40.600 --> 36:45.480 like that, and like once you try to get rid of that, you just create two different classes of 36:45.480 --> 36:49.320 people, and just the class that feels like they're better, and the class that feels like they can 36:49.320 --> 36:55.880 never be good enough. Well yeah, it's just like sarcasm, but like you can say it's a joke, say it's 36:55.880 --> 37:00.840 sarcasm when really it's passive aggressiveness, and there's a lot of like them saying this is true 37:00.840 --> 37:06.520 behind the type of deal, like people will, yeah, it's like making jokes, but it's sending a message 37:06.520 --> 37:11.960 and separating, just like creating a divide even more. Is that what you're trying to say? 37:11.960 --> 37:17.080 Because I can see that that's usually what, like that's why like the internet has just divided 37:17.080 --> 37:23.720 the country because of content like the Babylon Bee, this is getting just fed to one side of people 37:23.720 --> 37:28.440 creating an echo chamber, and I feel like the same thing happens on the other side, because all I get 37:28.440 --> 37:34.040 is just like leftist jokes about the right and making fun of the right, and it's like they just 37:34.040 --> 37:39.480 feed these certain people these same ideas over and over again, affirming stupid beliefs. 37:40.440 --> 37:45.240 And you can say, oh, I was just joking, but it's still affirming a lot of beliefs that people have 37:45.240 --> 37:51.960 that are harmful. Yeah, exactly, and like I bring out the Babylon Bee because they made a joke about 37:51.960 --> 37:58.360 it, and like I didn't want to get super political about it, obviously, I lean left, I think. I don't 37:58.360 --> 38:04.840 want to try to hide that behind anything. But like my problem with the Babylon Bee is that they write 38:04.840 --> 38:10.280 their headlines in a way that tricks a significant amount of their audience, and like the intersection 38:10.280 --> 38:15.000 between being on the right, being right wing, I know I use that term, being on the right wing, 38:15.000 --> 38:19.080 and being conservative is very significant. And so that's why I make the correlation here, 38:19.640 --> 38:24.840 with Johnson making a joke about the Babylon Bee being a news source, like he even made it in the 38:24.840 --> 38:29.080 podcast of like, you're going to use them as a news source kind of thing. And like the problem is, 38:29.080 --> 38:36.360 is that like, like their audience gets tricked significantly more than, well, here in the 38:36.360 --> 38:43.000 conversation, they do the same thing with the onion, and the highest satirical claim by the 38:43.000 --> 38:49.640 onion that was believed by Democrats was 14%. Like it's like significantly less. And like, 38:49.640 --> 38:57.000 that's what scares me is like, I feel that church has trained people, I want to be careful how I say 38:57.000 --> 39:07.240 this. I feel that church has trained people to take things that people in power say as fact without 39:07.240 --> 39:13.720 double checking it. And that's like one of my biggest things that I have against sermons is 39:13.720 --> 39:21.560 that you just listen to someone who has a lot of power over you who has a huge power dynamic between 39:22.280 --> 39:25.720 you and a pastor on the stage, as much as you think that a pastor is your friend, 39:26.280 --> 39:31.320 and they most likely are your friend. I don't have any problems with personal relationships 39:31.320 --> 39:36.760 with pastors, but when they get on the podium, and speak to you and do a sermon, there's a huge 39:36.760 --> 39:42.040 power dynamic there. And your inclination is just to believe what they're saying, because you trust 39:42.040 --> 39:45.880 them and you have a friendship with them. And they're the ones that went to school. But if you 39:45.880 --> 39:52.280 don't go and look and read it for yourself, you don't fact check everything your pastor says, 39:52.280 --> 39:58.200 and you don't double check into it. And it just it's you're getting a college, you're getting a 39:58.200 --> 40:03.960 class of like, like you're learning, but without the homework and the research and the stuff that 40:03.960 --> 40:08.840 you put in by yourself later after your hours, so you can study for the test, like you're missing 40:08.840 --> 40:14.040 half of the equation and learning something, and you're not looking at things for yourself. 40:14.040 --> 40:20.840 And it seems that data seems to show that it's becoming a problem on one side of the aisle more 40:20.840 --> 40:27.480 than the other. And I mean, it's definitely the fact of how social media amplifies things. And 40:28.360 --> 40:33.960 definitely between there's more similarities on the right wing and conservatives and 40:33.960 --> 40:41.240 and church going people and what they believe. And so it's easier to amplify misinformation on 40:41.240 --> 40:48.200 that side. Yeah, yeah. But the problem is to as both sides are saying, do your research, 40:48.200 --> 40:52.440 everyone thinks they've done their research and they know what they're talking about. No one 40:52.440 --> 40:59.160 is willing to admit that like they don't know anything. And you could tell people that don't 40:59.160 --> 41:03.640 know much when they claim to know something because most of the people that know a lot have 41:03.640 --> 41:08.120 learned a lot, have researched a lot are usually like, I don't even know anything anymore. Like, 41:08.120 --> 41:12.920 I know nothing. The more you learn, the more you learn that you don't know anything. There's like 41:12.920 --> 41:19.160 so much out there. And so we've got a bunch of ignorant people that think they've done research, 41:19.160 --> 41:22.840 think they know what they're talking about and aren't willing to budge on it because they did 41:22.840 --> 41:28.600 their research according to them. So it's a problem because no one's willing to like, I feel like 41:28.600 --> 41:33.480 people just aren't pointing it out. And if you do, then they just turn it into satire like this, 41:33.480 --> 41:39.480 a website like any steps towards progress are just turned into a joke. 41:39.480 --> 41:45.320 Yeah, because it's easier to make a joke than anything else. But like a lot of it is like the 41:45.320 --> 41:50.920 bar for what you can consider research is like really low in the internet age too. 41:51.480 --> 41:57.160 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because people can find anything to affirm any belief. You could tell me anything, 41:57.160 --> 42:02.840 I could find someone on the internet that affirms it some way. Like you can find whatever you want. 42:02.840 --> 42:07.720 If you think like, oh, I don't have an example in mind, but anything you want, you can find someone 42:07.720 --> 42:12.840 who agrees with you because of the internet and that reinforces it. All I'm saying is we need more 42:12.840 --> 42:17.560 bullies. People need to get bullied more. Bullying works. I mean, that's my slogan. Like, 42:18.520 --> 42:23.160 you didn't even know that. But like I say that constantly, like bullying works. We should bully 42:23.160 --> 42:27.560 people. Bully people more and then we won't have these issues. 42:27.560 --> 42:33.080 Kids aren't being bullied. Actually, they're just being bullied in a different way. It's very 42:33.080 --> 42:39.160 different now. Yeah, I'm sure it is. I don't think I've ever been cyber bullied or like read 42:39.160 --> 42:43.960 comments on something of someone like making fun of me. That's never happened. One time I made an 42:43.960 --> 42:51.240 argument on Facebook in kind of defense. I used, I was making an argument about something apologetic 42:51.240 --> 42:56.280 wise and I used something that sounded like evolution and you bullied me on Facebook about it, but 42:56.280 --> 43:04.360 that's fine. I just literally popped into my head right now. I don't even remember that. 43:05.800 --> 43:12.520 Yeah, I stay away from most social media and it's not like some like choice that I made. It's just 43:12.520 --> 43:19.160 disinterest. Never, never really got interested. I tried. I tried. I tried. I tried. I tried. I 43:19.160 --> 43:24.120 really got interested. I tried. I tried to fit in. I had like a Twitter post and now it's really fun 43:24.120 --> 43:28.200 to look back at my Twitter posts and like sophomore year of high school because they're really cringy, 43:28.200 --> 43:32.680 but that's all I have. After that, I just kind of gave up. I was like, this isn't my thing. I tried 43:32.680 --> 43:38.120 it. It's not my thing and I've never gotten back into it. I'll know what it is. It's not interesting 43:38.120 --> 43:42.520 to me. I don't care about your lives. I don't care about your opinions. I'm not going to read 43:42.520 --> 43:49.000 about it more. You're so ignorant of so many things and I don't even have social media profiles and 43:49.000 --> 43:58.120 I still just love looking at some of these grifters. I don't find any choice. I'll get some 43:58.120 --> 44:04.680 entertainment from Reddit, but other than that, I just I don't really look at it. I don't even read 44:04.680 --> 44:08.680 the comments on Reddit. I just use it. Like I just go on the home page because all the interesting 44:08.680 --> 44:13.560 articles are at the top and I just look at them like I don't care. I'm the same way. I don't care 44:13.560 --> 44:21.080 what you people think. Yeah, I just I use the internet for entertainment. I don't use it for 44:21.080 --> 44:27.480 much like I don't do much research anymore because I'm not writing anything. The most I do is just 44:27.480 --> 44:33.000 learn different points of view and perspective. Like I'll read that just to get an idea of what 44:33.000 --> 44:38.360 other people are thinking. Yeah, most of the time, it's just like most people aren't willing to try 44:38.360 --> 44:44.280 to understand the other side. They just think mine makes the most sense and it should make the most 44:44.280 --> 44:49.640 sense to everyone. Like how cannot everyone understand this instead of being like oh, I see 44:49.640 --> 44:54.760 why they think that. Here's why I disagree. It's less of a conversation. It's always one-sided. 44:54.760 --> 45:00.760 It's not like talking back and forth. It's talking at on both sides. It's just I never see any 45:00.760 --> 45:05.960 conversations like a productive conversation going on anywhere. That's just why social media is really 45:05.960 --> 45:11.560 bad for those conversations. Whenever I'm criticizing the right wing, I'm not criticizing 45:11.560 --> 45:17.000 normal people who are conservatives or Christians or evangelicals. I got plenty of criticisms for 45:17.000 --> 45:22.440 them and a lot more specific. When I'm talking about the right wing, I'm talking like really far 45:22.440 --> 45:29.720 right kind of people like the fascists and the Nazis and QAnon. I think I need to clarify that 45:29.720 --> 45:35.880 a little more. Evangelicals are a lot on the right and that's kind of the problem is they sit 45:35.880 --> 45:42.120 on the conservative side and they're very involved in a concerning amount of things that are becoming 45:42.120 --> 45:48.200 very far right problems. I'm not criticizing, I think their economic policy of being fiscally 45:48.200 --> 45:55.720 conservative is bad, but I can argue that. Those conversations people have in person, 45:55.720 --> 46:01.000 actual economists have those conversations with each other and that's much better than two people 46:01.000 --> 46:06.360 on Twitter just fighting it out. I just want to clarify when I'm talking about the right wing, 46:06.360 --> 46:10.920 I'm not talking about the average people. I'm talking about not the people who got 46:10.920 --> 46:15.800 bamboozled, but I'm talking about the grifters who obviously don't believe what they believe 46:15.800 --> 46:20.120 and just being hateful because they get clicks and stuff. It's just a pipeline I'm talking about. 46:20.760 --> 46:26.440 Which points out a problem that I think I see with social media and everything is that I see it 46:26.440 --> 46:31.720 portraying in people's minds that people on the right will get stuff and it will portray the entire 46:31.720 --> 46:38.280 left as the radical left and the same on vice versa. We'll get this image that the entire right 46:38.280 --> 46:45.160 is these radical QAnon believers. We'll just associate all of these things just with the 46:45.160 --> 46:52.040 right in general. I feel like social media has a good... They do good at generalizing people, 46:52.040 --> 46:57.400 and but the wrong type of generalization. It's not an average of the beliefs. It's the most radical 46:57.400 --> 47:02.680 beliefs we're going to associate with this group of people that not necessarily have those. 47:04.120 --> 47:10.360 Polarization has increased and there's a couple really good books I read recently talking about 47:10.360 --> 47:18.680 historical. Voters used to vote for Democrats and local and then Republican for federal. 47:18.680 --> 47:25.240 And as the parties polarized throughout the last 60 years, it's becoming worse and worse. 47:25.240 --> 47:31.240 And that is true, but you can also talk about how the Overton window has shifted very far right. 47:32.200 --> 47:39.960 It's disingenuous stuff. This is going to get really political. But it's disingenuous stuff of 47:39.960 --> 47:48.120 you have people in the GOP party like Jim Banks and Braun and people who the evangelical voting 47:48.120 --> 47:54.040 bloc, which is the biggest voting bloc in the US, have voted these people in. And these people 47:54.040 --> 48:00.920 think that Joe Biden is a radical socialist who's bringing communism into the US, which is obviously 48:00.920 --> 48:09.080 not true. But if you think that Joe Biden is on the left, then your worldview is so small compared 48:09.080 --> 48:16.680 to like Joe Biden would be a conservative in a European country. It's a weird worldview that 48:16.680 --> 48:24.760 like, like the right is so focused on just such small issues and the left is very expansive. 48:24.760 --> 48:32.120 And so it's interesting to look at the center right and it's very interesting to look at the 48:32.120 --> 48:37.800 beliefs the center right has. They hold a lot of the same values that the very far right has, 48:37.800 --> 48:45.320 and they overlap in a couple of key instances. And so that makes the group look a lot smaller. 48:45.320 --> 48:51.480 Then you have, you know, you have center left, you have liberal left leaning, and then far left, 48:51.480 --> 48:58.200 and then you have a whole other separate area for democratic socialism, stuff like that. And it's 48:58.200 --> 49:06.360 just interesting to see how similar the right is on key parts while being different on like, 49:06.360 --> 49:11.080 do we actually want a fascist state or not? But that's a big problem is when these voting blocks 49:11.080 --> 49:19.080 were created 50 years ago when the evangelical church was motivated by the Koch brothers and 49:19.080 --> 49:26.680 a couple other people into mostly it was actually they were rallied together to overturn abortion. 49:26.680 --> 49:31.160 So it's just been like a big 50 year mobilization effort. So we got what we got now, but 49:32.520 --> 49:38.120 that's our difference. I think you like politics a lot and I have had zero interest in politics. 49:38.120 --> 49:41.640 I like I barely know anything about political stuff. 49:41.640 --> 49:45.400 You just got me on this voting block thing and I just I just read a couple like 49:46.120 --> 49:52.280 four or five books about this. And it's been really interesting to see polarization happen 49:52.280 --> 49:58.760 through like data earlier. Anyway. Yeah, I don't know if Luke Johnson was actually 49:58.760 --> 50:03.400 like being serious about it as a source. I think he was joking when he said that though. 50:03.400 --> 50:08.680 That's how I interpreted it was. Yeah. And making a joke about using the Babylon being a history 50:08.680 --> 50:14.120 class. Yeah, it's hard to tell. Like I just pointed out though, because so many people like 50:14.120 --> 50:20.120 like it. Well, it was it's because of the controversy. So that's what Barbara mentioned, 50:20.120 --> 50:26.520 like the misinformation source. So they wrote a couple things. Let me pull those up. It's going 50:26.520 --> 50:33.160 to take 10 minutes. Okay. So this is recorded and okay. So around the time this was recorded 50:33.160 --> 50:42.360 in June 2021, one of the co-founders of the Babylon Bee responded to Facebook removing one 50:42.360 --> 50:49.720 of their posts. The Bee made a Facebook post linking a story to their Amy Coney Barrett 50:49.720 --> 50:55.560 Supreme Court nomination with the headline, Senator Jarrino demands ACB be weighed against 50:55.560 --> 51:00.840 a duck to see if she is a witch, which was a reference to a 1975 film, Monty Python and 51:00.840 --> 51:06.440 the Holy Grail. Facebook removed the post and demonetized the Bee's Facebook page, citing their 51:06.440 --> 51:12.200 policies against incitement to violence. Dillinard said that in what universe does a fictional quote 51:12.200 --> 51:17.160 as part of an obvious joke constitute a genuine incitement to violence? How does context not come 51:17.160 --> 51:21.880 into play here? They're asking us to edit the article and not speak publicly and about internal 51:21.880 --> 51:27.960 content reviews. And in June 2021, it happened again, because Facebook said they would moderate 51:27.960 --> 51:33.080 satire that punches down saying in response that we're not punching down, we're punching back. 51:33.080 --> 51:39.240 And August 2020, Twitter also suspended the Bee's account after it was mistakenly caught in a spam 51:39.240 --> 51:45.080 filter. And 2021 Mailchimp suspended the Bee's account and what the company later said was an 51:45.080 --> 51:50.520 error. In response, Dillin said that they would no longer use Mailchimp services. And August 2021, 51:50.520 --> 51:55.160 Dillin accused Facebook of throttling the reach of the Babylon Bee after drop in referral traffic 51:55.160 --> 52:02.520 from Facebook. So the big fight is that that's what Barbara was referring to with them being 52:02.520 --> 52:09.640 flagged as misinformation. They weren't technically flagged as misinformation. They broke, in 52:09.640 --> 52:17.240 Facebook's opinion, they broke content policies. And so they were removed. Gotcha. And like it's 52:17.240 --> 52:23.720 the because it's so hard because we've had social media that's been unmoderated and left unchecked, 52:23.720 --> 52:30.200 and it gave birth to like pizza gay and QAnon and all this other like horrible shit. And then we 52:30.200 --> 52:36.680 start to moderate and then we start to moderate and then the Babylon Bee gets caught in spam filters 52:36.680 --> 52:42.440 and they get flagged for breaking content policies. So like it's hard to like what are you writing 52:42.440 --> 52:49.320 that gets you flagged in content policies like it's concerning. But that's what he was referring to. 52:49.320 --> 52:55.240 I wish you would have talked more about it. It was an intro episode. Yeah, yeah, unfortunately. 52:55.240 --> 52:59.400 I mean, there's so many more things that happen after this episode got recorded too, 52:59.400 --> 53:20.040 because then he started talking about cancel culture. And that's always a classic.